Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Cult of Mac, Steve Jobs, Surveys and Polls, Blogs
The Problem with Mac Fanatics: Revisited
I must work in cycles, because three days off from a year ago, I wrote an article for Apple Matters, called Apple Zealots Hurt Apple for which I was dutifully flamed by the dazed-by-Steve's-aura crowd.In any case, this morning, I stumbled across this post in my meanderings around the Internet. The post ends nicely with this bit: "Computers are machines, not badges or status symbols. The Macs a very good machine too. Its a great shame that its genuine advantages over the opposition are often overshadowed by the zealotry of a highly vocal minority. They are, if only they knew it, the best allies Microsoft could ever hope for. "
I whole-heartily agree. What do you think? Do the Apple fanatics among us do more harm than good?
[via Technovia]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Joe Bella said 5:21PM on 8-23-2005
I don't this is exclusively a mac problem.
The internet breeds zealotry.
It's so easy and consequence-free to send a nasty-gram to anyone who even slightly disagrees with you. Take a look at any posting on slashdot as a good example. Civilized discourse is hard to find about any topic no matter how trivial.
joe
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Chris K said 5:21PM on 8-23-2005
Yup. I was a Mac user from...ummm...86 or so until 94. I only came back for the Mac mini this year, thanks in no small part to the Mac community. Yes, the shareware scene is alive and well on the Mac, but the people you run into (present company excluded, OF COURSE!) are typically a bunch of snotty, arrogant hypocrites. It's not that being associated with such people (I certainly know worse) grates on me. The part that bothers me is that if I want news, information, or pretty much anything Mac related, I have to deal with an army of snobby zealots.
Coming back to the Mac, I am reminded how much I hated all the ignorant "M$" bashing, the not-so-witty sniping, and the blind allegiance to anything Apple (or even Steve Jobs...AHEM) says. A large part of the Mac has a HUGE inferiority complex, and hides it beneath a veneer of snotty remarks and posturing.
...but you guys are all cool, of course. ;)
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Barry said 5:27PM on 8-23-2005
Snottiness and arrogance aside (and I agree there are such people touting Macs and PCs), it simply isn't "hip" to care. No one wants to talk to a person who is truly passionate about something. And God forbid that person should ever encourage you to be passionate about the same thing. This is true no matter what the topic.
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tr said 5:31PM on 8-23-2005
i agree. just talking to some non-computer-people friends about computers, it seems like when apple or macs are mentioned, people discount the mac as "just something those people use." what people? "the people who are always talking about macs and how better they are than anything else."
mac zealots aren't helping anyone. it's not a good sign when i'll be talking to someone, and somehow it comes up that i use a mac, and their reaction is "oh...you're one of them" as in "oh, i bet this guy is gonna start preaching." personally, i really don't care. but imagine your grandmother, or some one who doesn't know much about computers, but is thinking of getting one. and she talks to people in stores, acquaintances, etc., and might mention the mac. i guarantee she will get a reaction similar to the one above, and after a couple reactions like that, she probably would stay away from apple products.
computers should follow the automobile analogy. you buy a car based on a variety of factors: looks, build quality, interior, performance, price, etc. when you buy a honda civic, no one says "oh, you're one of THOSE...you civic zealot!" (okay, for the record, there are zealots for every automobile manufacturer, but thos epeople are usually busy posting flames on automotive forums ;-))
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Robert Paege said 5:33PM on 8-23-2005
I agree that some who blithely accept or stridendly defend anything apple as being god-sent only hurt the ones they love, but it's also true that there are Joseph McCarthys out there who will automatically label someone a Mac zealot for simply expressing support for their product of choice.
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Sam said 5:33PM on 8-23-2005
I think that maybe a lot of the worst mac-zealots don't realize that they are mac-zealots. They have simply subscribed to the philosophic mantra that is Apple's marketing "We do things better". Combine that with the "flame-first and ask questions later" attitude that pervades the internet as a whole and it makes for a perfect storm scenario of zealotry.
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Patrick Bennett said 5:45PM on 8-23-2005
This is something I have often wondered about in that I work in the design industry in New York the second home of snobbiness (after L.A. of course) on both online and offline campaigns for many large agencies and therefore come into contact with a lot of people who use Macs everyday... yet I've never really noticed someone I would call a "Mac Zealot" or "Mac Fanatic".
I do encounter people in the tech departments of these companies who basically tell me I'm an idiot for using a Mac and if I can't access something on their "perfectly" configured aging Exchange server it must be something wrong on my end.
Basically, it seems like people have preferences and excercise them. Sometimes, blindly. I've never seen a fullblown arguement over PCs vs Macs... maybe I'm rolling with the wrong crowd...
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narco said 5:56PM on 8-23-2005
I don't think someone is a Mac zealot just because they obsess over their choice of platform -- i consider someone a Mac zealot when they refer to Microsoft as "M$" or Microsux. It's alright to be proud to be a Mac user, but it's really pointless to talk bad about other operating systems because it's all a matter of personal preference. It's just like in real life: you can state your opinions, but when you start attacking the other person's opinions then it has gone too far.
Fishes,
narco.
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Andrew Kaufmann said 5:58PM on 8-23-2005
I think Mac zealots can be annoying -- and I like Macs. Just like someone who talks about politics all the time, or sports all the time, the people who take every opportunity to evangelize Macs all the time can grate on people.
I have doubts that it puts a serious dent in Apple's pocketbook, though. I think it makes those PEOPLE annoying, but not really the product. I'd say it's a wash, when you consider the people driven to Macs by the zealots vs. the people that purposely stay away.
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Andre said 6:29PM on 8-23-2005
I think this is a "depends" sort of issue. Passion for a product is not a bad thing. A computer is NOT just a machine, not if you really use your computer. And passionate advocates sell products. Just ask TiVo. The question is: how is the passion made manifest? Bashing and childish put downs are never good. But the passion of "zealots" is probably what kept Apple afloat lo these many years, and it's largely a good thing.
I think the "just a computer" meme is the path to Microsoft sales. I use a Mac because, even if it is just a computer, it _feels_ like my helper. I love that. It's the whole ball of wax for me being a mac user.
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johnwillo said 6:36PM on 8-23-2005
Zealots can be abboying, but only zealots could have stood by Apple in the dark mid-nineties days of lousy products, lousy reliability, crashing market share, and Spindler. Without them, the company might not have survived for more balanced customers to enjoy today.
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allen said 6:44PM on 8-23-2005
Coming form 19 years as a PC users I recently got myself a Powerbook and iMac because I want to try something different. But soon after I joined a few Mac forums I notice the bashing on the PC is much much worst than the PC bashing on Mac. Most of the comments are baseless bashing and seems like they are still living in 1995. They lack the understanding how PC works and jumps on the slogan PC sucks just because it's Bill Gate blar blar blar Intel blar blar blar .... least to say I'm rather annoy. And the funniest thing is whenever I have a Mac questions, most PC basher simply disappear.
Computer are complicated machine and none are as reliable as say... your dishwasher. Mac is just another computers developed in a more control environment. Probably a bit better in design and eaiser to use than a PC but still. It's not perfect and Steve Job isn't God.
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David said 6:53PM on 8-23-2005
I use all three flavors of computer: Linux and Windows at work, Mac and Windows at home. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages.
I keep all my business stuff on the Windows machine, which I like because it's easy to get business software for, it's less expensive than the Mac, and Microsoft is pretty good about backwards compatibilty. I use the Mac for all my graphics and music stuff. For obvious reasons. And you can't beat Macs for beautiful design. At my day gig I'm doing effects for films, and Linux is best for large-scale networking. As the article you cite says, computers are machines, and as such are basically just tools for getting things done.
That said, the really smart thing that Apple has done is create a culture around their products. It works the same as the culture that surrounds music, in that it is a community that people identify with. Smart marketing, and not such a bad thing. The Apple people understand the fun factor better than their competitors.
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Nico said 7:12PM on 8-23-2005
I have been a Windows user for about 15 years until this year when I switched. I made that decision based on the fact that the MAC OS is solid and based on Unix. The interface is great, the tools and products are great. I am still using Windows at work and still think that some work can be done better on Windows than Mac, but I love my Mac.
People who are one-sided most likely don't know the other side better. But the Mac zealots also defend a motto that Steve Jobs himself defends: Switch, because Mac is better! Who's right? Who's wrong? As long as you use solid arguments for your opinion, fine. And it stays your opinion anyway, freedom of speech.
I have a similar story on my blog about absence of viruses/spyware on mac: http://blog.swisster.com
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albert said 7:34PM on 8-23-2005
The dangers of zealots could be the fact that they spread false information about Mac too passionately. Example Windows (3.1) crashes *all* the time, with blue screen of death, while Mac (OS X) *never* crashes.
Such statements could get tiresome in forums where one is looking for objective comments or discussions.
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Jonathan said 8:02PM on 8-23-2005
What a load of smug pillocks! I defy anyone that uses a Mac to not be a zealot - ie highly enthusiastic about Macs. The evidence is all around you, and just take a look at lovemarks.com... I am a trainee Mac zealot with just five years experience but I am always happy to extol the considerable virtues of Apple and her Macintosh family. Microsoft, HP, Dell only dream of producing products that engender such brand loyalty. And what's more, it has little or nothing to do with the Jobs' reality distortion field. Its just damn good design aimed at people like us...
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Mike (mdipi) said 9:04PM on 8-23-2005
No way, I can tell you for one i have sold more people on Apple than most of the people that work at Apple stores. In fact, there have been times when I've corrected the employees when trying to make a product demo to a future customer.
The "Mac Zelots" as you refer to us, do a lot of good for the Mac. Most of the other cult members that I know tend to love to help the newbies and want to support them as much as they can in their new endevor.
I dont think we hurt, many times we help.
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iBode said 12:26AM on 8-24-2005
I'm sorry, but if you want to hear (actually, read) some Mac zealots (in a bad way), go to Mac Daily News. They're quite bad over there.
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Wheels said 12:56AM on 8-24-2005
I agree with Jonathan, and I have to take exception with narco when he says, "i consider someone a Mac zealot when they refer to Microsoft as "M$" or Microsux" because I use those terms. I use those terms not because I'm a mac zealot - all tho I do evangelize - but because I was a slave to the Microsoft system for 10 years, and I gradually learned to hate it with every virus, reinstall, the spyware that came later, and the ever-present promise that new version will make things better. It's all palaver. That's why I refer to Windows as Winduhs and Microsoft as M$.
Yes, I love my iMac and call it Monty. I also love my 1951 Hudson Hornet and call her Hannibell. And in both cases I think they are both superior pieces of machinery and will defend and extol their virtue when needed. Does that make me a zealot? so be it; at least I care about something. As pointed out, without zealots Apple would've been dead in the mid nineties, and, with the case of the Hudson, if they weren't any Husonnuts around, the cars would all be crushed.
But I do agree that the general, pointless flaming that some participate in is childish, stupid, and puts a bad light on all of us. If I disagree with somebody, I'll call them out, but I'll always try to be civil.
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glad said 6:02AM on 8-24-2005
I have to agree with #12, when times were bad it's those so called zealots that kept Apple in business, so lets not chide them too much, when we should be actually thanking them as a lot of us were not mac users in the mid nineties (well I know I wasn't!).
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