Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, OS, Software, Apple, Blogs
Apple Matters: Vista isn't so bad after all?
Hadley Stern at Apple Matters has penned a, shall we say, 'unique' review of the recent RC1 of Microsoft Vista. Since I need to spoil the article for my post here, I'll summarize: he likes it. Hadley found RC1 to be a vast improvement over earlier releases, regarding it as a usable, snappy OS. In fact, the whole experience led Hadley to question whether the lines and differences are going to be drawn anymore between Mac OS X and Windows In particular, Hadley sees Apple's advantage dwindling in terms of software and UI: "what is left? Better hardware? Perhaps. More software selection? Certainly not," but what I think Hadley is not accounting for is that 'more' does not definitively equal 'better,' not by a long shot. I'll admit it's been years since I've truly sat down at a Windows machine and worked on it or searched for software to do one task or another, but an ongoing discussion involving software quality, innovation and accessibility eludes to the possibility that a little consumer fish isn't always at an advantage in a massive, diluted software pond. In other words: there are reasons why Apple is praised so often for including things like iLife with their machines (which still stomps commercial Windows counterparts), and why the typical MacUpdate-savvy, RSS-aggregating Mac users are often asked where and how to find any decent software by their Windows-toting brethren.
The most significant element of Vista Hadley steamrolled over is the truly massive and fundamental changes Microsoft is making to Vista's UI (whereby 'changes' could be interpreted as 'taking a sledgehammer to'). I'm not talking about just the Transparency Everywhere™ technology (that's an entirely separate conversation): this is about the radical redesigning and non-standard placement of traditional, basic elements like menu bars. Remember how much of an outcry ensued with Windows XP's slightly redesigned task bar and Start menu? Office dwellers were hurling themselves out of windows (and of course, forgetting to log out before doing so), claiming the apocalypse had arrived. While the Office 2007 camp has been receiving some eventual praise for the new 'ribbon' interface, I dare you to look at Office 2007, Vista's Windows Explorer, Windows Media Player 11 and IE7, and try to claim their UIs were forged from the same standards playbook.
Take a look at this Microsoft blog with examples of how much Vista's new UI has shifted, and note the non-standardness of everything. Some apps now have 'button bars,' while others have been stripped of a menu bar entirely. How anyone could consider this as looking "very similar" to Mac OS X or even 'understandable by the common user' is beyond me. This is a lot worse than Vista merely being "ugly" - it's like someone taking a shotgun to the Windows UI, duct-taping the results for review and Ballmer slapping on his gold-plated stamp of approval while polishing his two left feet.
Of course, from the guy who's trying to lay the OS down to sleep, I guess this all makes a little more sense. Let's just hope Mr. Stern is never actually faced with his 'desert island' decision, since after all: it still is a decision.
![TUAW [Cafepress]](http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tuaw.com/media/tuaw-cafepress-promo.png)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
brif said 2:25PM on 10-05-2006
Mr. Stern's UPDATED 'desert island' decision: Mac Pro with all apps installed and no internet connection OR a Windows machine with internet connection AND NO WINDOWS RESTORE DISCS. Even Mr.Stern would select standalone Mac Pro, because the OS now MATTERS. You cannot reinstall malwared/adwared/virused Windows from the Internet... Or can you? Oh, and please don't tell me about free anti-virus protection apps. They suck. I know it because I tried quite a few...
Reply
ih8bg8s said 2:37PM on 10-05-2006
Read the beginning of The Operating System is Dead:
"If you were on a desert island and you could only take the following two machines:"
Wouldn't a better question be:
"If you were on a desert island and you could only take ONE OF the following two machines:"
Reply
Cory said 2:44PM on 10-05-2006
While I agree that Microsoft is far from 'good', I think it's unfair to argue that Vista's UI is some type of frankenstein of UI. Have you guys not been using iTunes 7?
Apple's own standards for a 'common' user interface has been falling apart lately. Open iTunes and iPhoto, two apps that should really be remarkably similar as their utility is similar, and compare the UIs. The _scrollbars_ don't even match! Every iTunes release loses a bit of it's brushed metal interface.
I personally don't really mind the fractures that Apple is showing in their UIs but it pains me to see people acting like zealots in defense of a UI that is obvlously becoming less and less sacred to our beloved Apple.
Reply
Joe Angrisano said 2:45PM on 10-05-2006
I've been a Mac User since the early 90's but as of late, Apple's inability to make a desktop Mac that's appealing to me (I want a low-end tower not a $2500 beast) caused me to give Windows Vista a try. I built myself a very speedy 3ghz Mini PC. It's aluminum and about twice the size of a mini and features 256 mb GPU with dual monitor support, Litescribe DVD burner, 300gb hard drive - the works. It cost me about $500.
The goal was to switch to Windows but even if I didn't, I'd at least end up with a gaming machine. So I gave it a shot and let me say this, Windows Vista isn't terrible. Not by a longshot. Visually it's a huge step up from XP and in many respects feels very Mac-like. The betas I was in were very buggy however and there were too many productivity things which kept me from using the setup instead of my G5. Key commands, configuration options, the little things.
Had Vista been more stable when I used it I might not have switched back. I loved having access to all that software, being able to run a REAL version of Quicken not worrying about accessing web pages for my bank. It was great. But as of right now I'm hanging in there with the G5. I still prefer my Mac.
Reply
Fraser Drew said 3:02PM on 10-05-2006
I have vista RC1 on my macbook, and before this i had Beta 2 under the CPP, and i am and iPod halo effect switcher... So thats me, i've been a windows user, and i've got to say, i like Vista, i like the interface, i like the way it works.... But, and a big but... it still doesn't work as well as OS X, i know its pre-release etc, but its just no-where near as easy to use. I have a mate, that has windows XP, and want a new pc, i showed him both (vista Vs OS X) and he agreed.... OS X all the way... and thats from someone who has never used OS X before
Reply
James Huston said 3:07PM on 10-05-2006
"Have you guys not been using iTunes 7?"
Grey scrollbars are now the same as hiding menu bars and relying soley on non-standard toolbars to perform actions in your program?
Reply
James Huston said 4:43PM on 10-05-2006
OS X programs may diverge and look different but they don't change the UI in drastic measures that force the user to do a "mode shift" in their brains.
Reply
arnvid said 3:12PM on 10-05-2006
#1: you're so right. Nowadays any computer without an internetconnection may seem quite useless (it really isn't), but a winbox with an internetconnection renders itself useless after some time. I have not connected my windows laptop (which i onely use to do some devtesting) since my last reinstallation because i just don't have the time to bother with all that antivirus, malware and spyware stuff. If i need some app or updates for it, I just get it with my mac.
Imagine the frustration of being on a desert island with nothin more than an infected winbox. Would be usefull to get some of that tasty coconuts out of that tree.
Reply
michel said 5:05PM on 10-05-2006
apple is wrong with itunes
but still, man, the menu is still STANDARD.
apple is wrong with itunes 7 (I even re-aquaised it) but Microsoft is a lot of magnitude wrong with mostly ALL applications in vista.
ho and please, stop the zealot thing. I studied on unix/linux and windows.
I still think mac os 8 and 9 was BAD
but time is changing
and if you talk me about "standard" UI , you should go to GNOME / Linux. here you will see many applications with ALL the same graphical theme (and _NO_ more ugly), with consistent behaviour and many things. try http://ubuntulinux.com
ho it's not totally polished as some very good apple applications and some functions of mac os X. but it's _near_ and there are NOT tens interface for each applications as in vista.
so, if I say os X is still league ahead of vista, it's because I am honest about it.
and all the microsoft-hater can go to hell. I'm looking forward to office 2007 and even if I like xcode and recognize eclipse, microsoft devel studio is not at all a bad product neither.
very tiring to crush zealot-caller.
Reply
mat said 3:58PM on 10-05-2006
Until OS X gets rid of the POS that is called finder, and its hellish file management, I will never use my MBP as my main machine.
I could care less for Vista, but Microsoft did a great job with it file explorer.
Reply
Don Wilson said 3:45PM on 10-05-2006
Typical mac fanboys rely on Antivirus when they use a Windows machine because they have no clue what they're doing and click on any link on the internet. If you actually know what you're doing, you'll use Firefox solely, think about what you're clicking, and you'll never get a virus, "malware", or anything else. Last time I ran Adaware the only thing that came up were cookies, which is typical.
Mac fanboys find a review of vista that is favorable and they can't take it so they write a 3 page blog post degrading anything they can find. Move on kiddos, you're still okay with 3% of the market.
Reply
jk said 3:52PM on 10-05-2006
should change "eludes to" to "alludes to" in the second paragraph.
Reply
Toby said 4:18PM on 10-05-2006
"Typical mac fanboys rely on Antivirus when they use a Windows machine because they have no clue what they're doing and click on any link on the internet."
Typical mac fanboys don't rely on PC's period... let alone installing antivirus software on them. Why would they? It's a waste of time.
Your statements are so typical of the anti-mac fanboy. There you are, blazing around the internet in your trusty firefox browser looking for reviews of Vista on Mac friendly websites while you continue to wait and wait and wait for the mother ship they call Vista to land. How f'ing boring. Can't wait to read your review of Vista once you get your web savvy index finger on it.
Reply
thecompkid said 4:24AM on 10-06-2006
You use windows and you think that Firefox alone is going to protect you? I'm not even commenting on that level of sheer stupidity.
A word to the wise: The vast majority of mac users today were mac bashers yesterday.
Reply
Henry Wakeling said 5:04PM on 10-05-2006
Yeah RC1 is vast improvment over the beta ?rap that I used - however it's just blue screened. Also during the update to RC1 it deleted my copy of windows.old with out telling me! Oh yeah Vista is great......
Reply
Don Wilson said 5:14PM on 10-05-2006
Thanks Toby for your excellent response.
I like the Mac OS X operating system and pretty much every single product that Apple makes. In fact, I intend on buying the 24" Apple iMac very soon. I just don't like the fanboys who follow them. TUAW has awesome posts on anything related to macs, but when Windows comes into discussion, except for emulation (then it's perfectly fine to use Windows), it sparks these long winded, boring blog posts that are likely just reprints from earlier posts.
Reply
Toby said 5:55PM on 10-05-2006
Yo Don... agreed. long winded, boring blog post ramblings. Lots of them... all the time.
FYI - I migrated from a dual 1.8 Ghz G5 PowerMac to the new 24" iMac a couple weeks ago here at the office. While I enjoyed every bit of my PowerMac, I haven't really missed it at all since migrating. The new iMac is impressive and sexy. Throw in the wireless keyboard and mouse... my girlfriend is even jealous. Good luck with that purchase.
Reply
om. said 6:04PM on 10-05-2006
Uhm, well...
I recently tried installing the rc1 of Vista. Only this much:
Never, ever, never before in my entire life did it take me 3 (three!) hours to get some stupid pc to connect to my network and the internet.
What a piece of crap.
I deleted it immediately, formatted the drive and the peecee box now runs fedora. ;)
om.
Reply
thomas_h said 6:58PM on 10-05-2006
""Typical mac fanboys rely on Antivirus when they use a Windows machine because they have no clue what they're doing and click on any link on the internet. If you actually know what you're doing, you'll use Firefox solely, think about what you're clicking, and you'll never get a virus, "malware", or anything else. Last time I ran Adaware the only thing that came up were cookies, which is typical.
Mac fanboys find a review of vista that is favorable and they can't take it so they write a 3 page blog post degrading anything they can find. Move on kiddos, you're still okay with 3% of the market.
Posted at 3:45PM on Oct 5th 2006 by Don Wilson 2 stars""
ehh.. i got that blaster virus or what it was called, when i had formatted, just after one minute or so. i didnt even open internet explorer before that dreaded "blah blah your computer is shutting down in 30 seconds" warning message.
that was when i learned not to plug in the internet cable before i had installed anti virus.
Reply
tomB said 7:07PM on 10-05-2006
Lipstick on a pig. I don't doubt (based on comments from beta testers) that Vista will be prettier than XP. That' s easy enough to achieve since XP is arguably a lot uglier than Win2000. I don't doubt Vista will be more stable. Going from 2000 to XP at work, I was able to go from hourly re-boots to daily re-boots. But 1) it still won't be stable by Mac user standards 2) It won't be notably more secure than XP 3) It still won't offer robust multitasking, like UNIX-based systems do. It still isn't UNIX. 4) it will have nasty DRM. 5) It will still have infuriating user-inconsistancies that will drive you nuts.6) it will still lack credible development tools, like Apple's X-code. 7) It will still be slow and bloated. MORE slow and bloated than XP, by all accounts.8) It will still be "plug and pray". 9) It will still network poorly.
Reply