Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Humor, iPod Family, Cult of Mac, Odds and ends, Steve Jobs
Grammar Girl covers the "funnest" iPod ever
Believe it or not, Grammar Girl is suprisingly forgiving -- she says that fun, while originally a noun ("we had fun"), has made a transition in the last century or so to an "attributive noun" which can be used as an adjective ("we had a fun party"). And while old-timers may flinch at the words "funner" and "funnest", the correct way to modify one-syllable adjectives is in fact by adding "-er" and "-est" to the ends. So technically, "funnest" is grammatically correct, even if it isn't exactly accepted; Grammar Girl calls it "grating and horrifying."
She finishes today's podcast, however, with a scary note for language traditionalists -- it could very well be that Apple's usage of the word is just what "funnest" needs to go over the edge into regular acceptance. Sure, we get that language evolves, but couldn't they just have said it was "the most fun iPod ever?" Or, even more traditionally, "the most fun you'll have with an iPod?"
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Dom said 7:12PM on 9-12-2008
It may be grammatically "correct", but I'm fairly sure that's overridden by the fact that the word "funnest" doesn't actually exist.
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arbert said 7:35PM on 9-12-2008
the point of the ad phrase is that tech and gadget people coin new words every day.
using the phrase "the most fun iPod ever" ain't hip, and simply does not fit the techno/neo/gadgetspeak of today
golly gorsh
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Frank said 8:16PM on 9-12-2008
omg, no wai -- langwege evolvs? lol - thatz the funnest idea evar.
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Dirt Monkey said 8:52PM on 9-12-2008
I wrote about this very thing last week ... it's their company and they can do whatever they like, but 1) I, too, read it as "funniest"; 2) I still don't like ... ;-)
http://reddirtkings.com/2008/09/apple-haz-pour-gramerr.html
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jbelkin said 9:34PM on 9-12-2008
"The most fun you'll have with an iPod?" would be too direct - the British ad board would point to that virbrator attachment and say - AD NOT TRUE - rejected! ...
So by using a word that has a vaguish benchmark of meaning, it passes 'ad lingo' muster ... what indeed is 'funnest?'
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cv said 9:50PM on 9-12-2008
To all you naysayers, sorry, "funnest" is already in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary (www.m-w.com).
One of the beauties of American English is that there is no review board to make the word official. Not only has the word been used for years (decades?), the average American will understand its meaning.
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robogobo said 4:31AM on 9-13-2008
Yep, it's there. Hey, and just because it looks strange doesn't mean it ain't a word.
I like it. In a tongue in cheek sort of way, it's as if they knew it was wrong but used it anyway. People do this all the time, at parties and at work and school. In fact, it's in "fun" situations that you can get away with warping language and breaking the rules. Language is ever-changing. Any linguist worth their salt knows that.
Marvin said 11:09PM on 9-12-2008
English is not my native tongue but I guess I've read too many English books to date, nitpicking at how to use certain words while reading, to let this thing slide. I, too, misread it as "funniest" the first time I saw the slogan and I started to wonder why would Apple call the iPod funny? Then I read it again and "cringed" when it says "funnest"! I had a feeling right then and there that, hey, that's not a word! And before I knew it, you guys are arguing about it! It became the talk of the town! That's pure marketing to you, right there!
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robb said 8:45AM on 9-13-2008
"The most fun you'll have with an iPod..." with your clothes on.
Somebody had to say it. Hm... that might not be such a bad slogan after all.
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Patrick said 3:19AM on 9-13-2008
I must take umbrage with this entire post. While "Grammar Girl" is correct by stating that single syllable words form the comparative by adding "-er", and the superlative by adding "-est", her basis is incorrect. One- and two-syllable words may be changed into the comparative or superlative forms by adding "-er" and "-est", respectively, but that is not the true reason. Strong adjectives (owing their heritage to Old English and German, et al.) are modified with "-er" and "-est", and weak adjectives (mostly borrowed from non-Germanic languages such as Latin, Greek and French) are modified using "more" and "most". Furthermore, all words in English three syllables and longer are changed into their comparative and superlative forms by prefixing the modifying words "more" or "most", respectively.
Because "fun" is in fact a true strong adjective, the proper and prescriptivist comparative and superlative forms are "funner" and "funnest", respectively. Evolution of the English language has lead to generalization of adjectival forms, and therefore "more fun" and "most fun" are becoming increasingly more common and accepted. Within the next one hundred years it is not difficult to imagine every comparative and superlative being created solely with "more" and "most".
(As an aside, let it also be noted that Apple's line of "Think different" is grammatically incorrect. It ought to be "Think differently", since different is an adjective and differently an adverb. While it has already been mentioned in the comments, it bears repeating again. It goes along the same lines as "Fresh baked cookies", when the line ought to read "Freshly baked cookies", which most bakeries often post incorrectly. Also, this entire post was unnecessary. I would almost call it pedantic, except it was incorrect, so I don't believe it qualifies.)
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robogobo said 6:14AM on 9-13-2008
ehhhh, nope. While your lengthy response is wordy enough to appear valid at first glance, I have to point out a couple corrections to your corrections. Rules for "weak" and "strong" adjectives are applicable only in Old English. Needless to say, we dropped that along with gendered nouns a while back. Today those rules can serve as a guide, however there are too many exceptions, as your contradicting reply demonstrates. But I digress.
"The most fun iPod" sounds even wronger (sic), doesn't it? With a word that is both adjective and noun, using "more" or "most" in front of it is awkward and confusing. You say, "Evolution of the English language has lead to generalization of adjectival forms, and therefore 'more fun' and 'most fun' are becoming increasingly more common and accepted." So does that mean funner and funnest used to be common? huh? You take issue with syntax and then present language evolution as evidence? Which is it?
Also, as previously pointed out (many, many times), "Think Different" is grammatically correct, as it is answering "what", not "how" to think- like saying "think change" or "think big". Perhaps the only thing missing is a comma. Perhaps. The same goes for "fresh baked cookies". It should read "Fresh, baked cookies".
You should take a look at other languages and the way they're controlled by governments, with official reforms and such. We are very lucky with English. It will always be ruled by common usage, not by traditionalists who insist language is static. Always adaptive, English is the most democratic language on earth. Sure, many don't understand the nuances and abuse it, but the rules are simple and flexible, so much so that it is in breaking them that new ideas are formed, even by accident. That's the beauty of it. English will always encourage modern thinking, and modern ideas often make traditionalists cringe.
Ken Broughton said 3:55AM on 9-13-2008
I simply mis-read it, as "funniest", which is a bit of an own-goal by Apple, as I'm primed for disappointment as I expectit to tell jokes, plus it has major negative connotations. Is it funny (I think) in the sense of being stupidly designed? Or is it the oddest in the sense of being difficult to understand? I'm sure I'm not alone in 'seeing' this much more common word instead. Which is a good reason for avoiding the Apple version.
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jkuehn said 9:00AM on 9-13-2008
How do I know the iPod Touch *I* purchase will be the single unit determined "funnest?" What if I purchase a unit that is, though decidedly funner, not the funnest? What if I purchase a depressed unit? Or a psychotic unit? Are all units psychologically tested to ensure they are as much fun as the funnest unit?
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ZeroCorpse said 10:46AM on 9-13-2008
I just think Frankenstein's monster, Tarzan, and Tonto are Apple's ad copy writers.
Steve: "How about some ideas, guys?"
Frankesnstein's Monster: "ME THINK DIFFERENT!"
Tonto: "IT FUNNEST iPOD EVER!"
Tarzan: "Tiger! Leopard! Get Cheetah!"
Steve: "Awesome work guys."
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AC said 11:39AM on 9-13-2008
Without meaning to draw any other comparison than that of wordsmithing, Shakespeare himself created between 1,000 and 10,000 new English words--depending on who's doing the counting. Is "funnest" a household word? No, but neither was household word a term, before Shakespeare.
If one considers the English language to be one of the great open source languages of the world, part structure, part magpie, part thief and part evolution, then the introduction of the term funnest is nothing more than a new line of code that may or may not make it past Sunday. But to call it wrong? That's simply silly, demands that we forego experimentation and suggests that a language that's inherently unfixed is fixed. Well good luck with that idea.
Put differently, there's a lot of truthiness in the term funnest.
iPim said 3:18PM on 9-13-2008
The word "funest" (with 1 n) has a meaning in Dutch: fatal...
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MacSmiley said 4:08PM on 9-13-2008
Re: The funnest and Think different
Check out Erin McKean's TED presentation:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/erin_mckean_redefines_the_dictionary.html
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MacSmiley said 4:12PM on 9-13-2008
You know, here's something interesting.
It takes Microsoft 2 "celebrities", cryptic dialog, and a minute and a half (or even more) to get people talking... and they're not even talking about the product!
All it takes Apple is a word or two.
Funnest... Think different...
That's genius!
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Joe said 2:40AM on 9-14-2008
this is the goodest article ever.
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Masseyis said 5:45AM on 9-15-2008
I am amazed that the writers of this blog listen to a grammar podcast! Has she ever covered that most frequent TUAW crime of missing the genitive case from collective nouns? Or the dative for the word write? I cannot tell you how many times I have gnashed my teeth when I read the phrases 'Couple times' or 'Write me' on this blog. I hope she does requests.
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