Filed under: Hardware, Cult of Mac, PowerMac G5
Build your own x86 Mac
There are many people eagerly awaiting the pending Intel-based Macs for a variety of reasons, including the 'build-your-own-computer' crowd. So far this group has had to restrict its efforts to the Windows and Linux worlds, but Build Your Own Mac is a new website that hopes to change that. Articles include how to construct a system, how to install OS X on the system you create (regardless of what Apple tells you) and challenges the authors are currently aware of.It's interesting, to say the least. My Wintel friends have long listed the fact that they can't build a custom Mac as a reason to stay from the platform. Who knows if this will change that or not, but it should be an interesting site to watch regardless.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
djones said 11:55AM on 6-15-2005
This is an intrinsic difference between Apple users and PC users. Apple users want a computer that lets them do their work. PC users want to work on their computers. Apple switching microprocessors isn't going to change that one bit. If you don't buy an Apple, you won't be able to run OS X, so no matter how you build your system, even if you end up with a majority of identical system critical pieces as the units Apple ships, you will just have a regular old Intel PC.
PC enthusiasts are enthusiasts about the hardware, about the process of manipulating it, and "pimping" or whatever. Apple enthusiasts are the same way, but are enthusiasts about what the end result is, and how they got there. Apple users love to drive nice, classy, vehicles, and love getting to the destination in them. PC users enjoy building said vehicle from a kit, changing their oil themselves, and constantly adding bits of chrome and other accessories.
That difference in user-philosophy is going to stay that way. People who have some instinctual need to "build a computer from the ground up" will not receive satisfaction from any part of the Apple experience.
The funniest part of all of this is that all of the hardware-build-it-geeks out there are taking pride in, and striving to accomplish, what is normally done by low-payed southeast Asian assembly line workers. Way to set that bar high.
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Dave Chartier said 11:38PM on 10-31-2005
There's a positive and functional reason Apple doesn't want people building their own Macs - it's so the Mac OS remains a stable and solid operating environment. Opening it up to any and every piece of hardware out there would cause it to get just as buggy, crashy and crappy as certain other OS's that will remain nameless...................
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GPSNavX said 11:55AM on 6-15-2005
As a developer of Mac software I cannot support this effort. Imagine I sell one of my apps. I get an email "Your app doesn't work, it crashes". After several go arounds with email I find out it's not an Apple computer product. What a pain and waste of time. What helps keeps the Mac so stable is the tight hardware control.
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PeterO said 11:55AM on 6-15-2005
Well-said Dave Chartier! Right on the mark.
I'd add that a tightly regulated production loop with symbiotically engineered hardware and software born from a single design will bypass many of the complications common to an open source supply chain. Though as we've seen, it's a two edge sword. On the one hand this integration affords better tailored products, while on the other hand it makes a company beholden to its suppliers -- even hostage. For example, IBM's trouble developing a cool-running, power-svelte G5 held up our long lusted G5 PowerBooks.
but..... to djones: you're out-to-lunch.
In my view, your comment's arrogance speaks to a limited understanding of the varying roles computers play for their users; expectations and needs differ. So, too, can 'experiences' within the Apple stable of products; by nature, experience is subjective. I'm glad whatever your 'experience' with Apple works for you. Mine works for me. Thankfully, mine can be different from yours...
Finally, just a heads-up: you might consider tempering your last paragraph. You might find some (many?) people will take huge offence to your last paragraph. You might try 'raising your bar' above racial & economic snobbism.
That Big issue aside, I'm pleased you like your Model T Ford, black.
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djones said 11:55AM on 6-15-2005
Peter"O"-face:
The entire point of the comparison only works *because* southeast Asian sweatshop electronics factories are so undesirable. Not because I look *down* on those people, but the practice of eploiting them in such a manner. The comparison draws that suburban, rich, white computer geeks farm out these jobs to places with cheap labor citing implicitly that it's because they can't get Americans to do the same work. The irony is that these same suburban, rich, white computer geeks now jump through hoops to try to make sure that they can get their hands dirty by assembling components that they select. It's not some elite task. It's the same job they refuse to do and/or have their countryman do.
Noting and drawing comparisons with big-business practices and the hypocrisy of those causing them isn't bigotry (nor pointing out the fact that the reason it can be done in the first place is because it's a low-skill job). I'm not the one causing the misbalance of labor in the tech industry. So don't go wagging your self-righteous finger around, m-kay?
And if you disagree with my philosophy of the difference between Apple and PC culture, then I'm afraid Apple's flagship is sailing past you. It's built into the mission statement of the company that computers are tools for creative people. The OS, the hardware that that OS will support, are all tailored to that end. It is all created with the purpose in mind that you will tinker WITH the computer, not ON the computer.
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PeterO said 3:44PM on 7-16-2005
djones:
Gee, Im not sure how I was to extract your editorial from just the last paragraph of your first post, notably Big Business; Asian sweatshops; and, affluent suburban residents. The lone paragraph reads in isolation from the rest of your comments as unsupported and derogatory kinda outside the nature of this site. So, I brought it up.
Now that youve elaborated and provided a few of the stepping-stones to your comment, I have a sense of the point youre making: Indeed, an individuals purchasing behavior can fly in the face of macroeconomic trends -- Thats probably a discussion for another forum, and its certainly off-topic with the intent of this thread.
Returning to your point,
This is an intrinsic difference between Apple users and PC users. Apple users want a computer that lets them do their work. PC users want to work on their computers. Apple switching microprocessors isn't going to change that one bit. If you don't buy an Apple, you won't be able to run OS X, so no matter how you build your system, even if you end up with a majority of identical system critical pieces as the units Apple ships, you will just have a regular old Intel PC.
what constitutes The Apple Experience? Probably something greater than the sum of its parts (if I read you right). My point is that The Apple Experience is subjective, driven in part by the software and hardware but also by the users intent for, and expectations, from the machine.
Will I ruin my Mac Experience by swapping Cupertinos single-button mouse with a Belkin 2-button unit? Or, a silver and black 5 button Intelli-mouse Explorer? Will I usurp The Experience by upgrading my Video card, switching brands of RAM, or heaven-forbid, add a third internal hard disk? Do I fail Steve if I want to upgrade my G5 silicon in 2 year old Power Mac to a speedier namesake? Rendering-times do impact my Experience.
Steve Jobs stated as recently as last Monday, the heart of the Mac is in its operating system. If this is the case, does it matter which bones it sports? Aside from the sensuous pleasure of disrobing a Mac from its box, Ill gladly forgo that Experience for hardware running The Heart in the fastest box possible. For me, thats the Ultimate Apple Experience.
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djones said 11:55AM on 6-15-2005
"Steve Jobs stated as recently as last Monday, the heart of the Mac is in its operating system. If this is the case, does it matter which bones it sports? "
That's exactly the point I'm making, and the reason I was motivated to post what I did in the first place. Like Dave, I have heard people sit in discussions of Mac vs. PC or Windows vs OS X, etc. to have the PC camp concede every point, and then finish with the "yeah, you're right, but I'd never do it because I can't build the system from the ground up." Or even just "I don't have enough hardware options."
People that are focused on the experience of owning _hardware_ are going to be too myopic to notice the experience of _using_ that hardware, i.e. the OS, and the software it inspires. And they are this way by choice. Heck, I used to be one of them. I'm a walking Switch clich?and from the overclocking/do-it-yourself/computers-used-to-be-glorified-video-games camp.
So people who take the stance of "never a Mac because I can't build it", to me are in the same spot as the "I'm gonna own a Mac, but danggit, I'm going to build it!" that the linked site is. Reading their first post acknowledging how much difficulty they will have even installing the OS on home-selected parts is laughable. The entire point of OS X, and Apple, is that using computers shouldn't be hard. Reverting one step *backward* to making the actual *acquiring* of the computer difficult, is ridiculous.
Slightly On-Topic is a fantastic article at Joel On Software regarding the cultural differences of approach to programming on Windows vs. Unix. It does indeed apply, if only to show that, yes, no one individual fits a specific stereotype, but stereotypes exist because en masse...
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Biculturalism.html
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Jack said 11:55AM on 6-15-2005
The concept of building your own PC is archiac at best. Doesn't anyone remember the days 10 or so years ago when there were PC builder businesses all over the place?
The main benefit was not the actual building of a machine, but the cost savings. There was a point where getting the parts and hooking them all together yourself DID cost less than buying a new machine.
But nowadays most of thise PC builder stores are gone. Why? Becuase the off-the-shelf PCs of today cost less or equal to building your own machine. There's no practical point to building your own machine nowadays. This is highlighted by the amount of stuff you can buy to decorate a PC. Neon lights, clear cases, etc. It's gotten to the point where most PC 'modders' are just repainting their gear or making it superficially look better.
Nowadays all anyone wants is a solid machine that they can eventually add more RAM, a larger hard drive and possibly a better CD/DVD drive to. The days of the hardcore builders is gone.
Which is why the whole debate about Apple allowing OS X to run on custom rigs is ridiculous. Nobody cares. Add that to the CPU Mhz speed non-issue, and you understand why the move to Intel x86 CPUs is happening. It's simple supply and demand. And the demand to build your own Intel box and sticking OS X on it is not as high as some people claim. Most people simply do not care.
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Casey said 6:53AM on 6-16-2005
My god people! They're computers not Jesus! Just pick one and use it.
You know people don't bicker like this over chicken or fish.
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spazstar said 6:18AM on 8-08-2005
this subject does matter beacuse:
1. i am not a deeloper of mac software
2. i work in digital recording
3. i am a pc user of 16+ years, 21 years of age(i played cenipede in 8 colors, or what-not). and the since i was thirteen i have known that the mac platform has been more stable than winX since i was 13.
4. i am attending SAE for a audio engineering tech degree, more or less. the idustry that i am going in to embraces macs. i am not the average user but i do need a computer 'to get the work done.'
and, most importantly, i can build two PCs that will outrun a G5 in tech specs for the price of a G5 i need but i can't spend $5k on a G5. (i worked in one of those 'PC builder shops' when i was 15-17.) being that, i'm stuck with running a PC/craprosoft until i can intall OSX or whatever it might be by then on my custom machine. also djones/jack, remember, though you may be too mac savy to pay any attention to this... if you buy a 'off the shelf' pc, you are most likely getting krap parts from frapganastan-orea-ia. if you build your own Pc, you might not save much in the average user angle unless you consider that your are not the average mp3 download/rip user and your audio card uses it's own RAM and has ten audio in/out and you use lightpipe to stream multiple chanells of (audio) and your video card suppports 2-3 monitors and uses it own ram and you can instal your PmaC in a rackmount case for ease of use in mobile applications... et cetra.
any point made here???
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gurutc said 12:37PM on 8-23-2005
Actually, to paraphrase Jobs and clarify his statement:
The heart of a Mac is its (it being the NextStep computer) operating system (OpenStep, Darwin, whatever you like to call it.)
The early video sluggishness and bugs-a-plenty of OSX and the many apps folks tried to run on it unsuccessfully (Quark et al) were related to creating a fancy video kernel for what was, in all aspects, a processor-independent (ie Yellow Box etc.) OS.
Why has Apple promoted (with control) the Darwin Project for X86? To leverage a community that recognizes Darwin's strengths and that recognizes that it was only a matter of time before Apple sold OS for X86. IBM sold hardware, Micro$oft sold OS. Who won?
Then there's the deal Gates and Jobs cut. How long did Jobs agree not to release his already 'fully operational death star?' in competition with Windows. Now that DOJ is finished, Gates can't hold Apple hostage with MSOffice.
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thedamianfactor said 3:01AM on 9-21-2005
I am a consumer, I may or may not be the typical consumer. I use windowz if I have to, *nix because I want to, and mac just because. I like to fancy that I make my own decisions. But I admit Apple does good marketing. I have bought several Apple products. I have friends who build those ridiculous machines with nice paint jobs and neon lights. But you can't fault them for this, any more than you can fault the people (myself I'm sure included) who have made Apple so successful in the past few years. And don't think that Apple is desperately afraid of people running their os on machines they didn't build. It's another market and more exposure.
What's at stake? Will the mac os become unstable because it is run on hack-job machines? Sure, at least on those machines. Let Apple worry about that, why do you care.
Apple found a way to capitalize on Open Source I'm sure they know what they are doing. And since they will still be supplying Apple computers if you want one in the name of stability go buy it, and let the rest of us hack around with them.
As for me I'm gonna go build a mac right now, nice talkin to ya!
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thedamianfactor said 3:46AM on 9-21-2005
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. There is not as was stated an, "intrinsic difference between Apple users and PC users"
What should have been said is that it may be possible to categorize personal computer users into two categories. Those who use the pc as a tool and those who use a personal computer as a tool box. Not all windows users are the tinkering type hence there are companies still thriving who sell windows machines as a turn-key solution just like Apple provides with the Apple hardware running the Mac os. However till now the tool box tinkering type have not had option to do their tinkering with Apple computers, or I guess I should say with computers running the Mac os. Now they can.
It would also be nice if more Apple/Mac users could recognize that they are PC users. If you use an Apple/Mac draw the distinction between Mac and Windows, or even if you like Apple/Mac and everyone else. If people would stop refering to everything else as PC Apple would stop putting that
tom-foolery on there packaging.
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zbeckerd said 4:21PM on 12-23-2005
I repair computers,and I always tell clients that if they want a computer that just does what they want it to do to get a mac. I also mention that I would not have much work if they all had macs. But I would still have work. Now that it is going intel getting hardware to fix it will hopefully be easier/cheaper than going through apple. The OS is the Mac, because the hardware is not the best as that is what I repair on Macs, hardware.
The best news is that your user community is about to grow a bunch. When you look for help on a windoze box or Linux you get a lot of hits. Not as much for mac issues (and not because there are not any). So I will be building hardware for OSX to better understand it at the hardware level.
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