Filed under: OS, Software, Surveys and Polls
What's the best Windows emulator for Mac?
I realize that the craze now is to install an illegally acquired and hacked developer version of OS X on an x86 box, but reader Brain writes in asking: "I searched around on the blog and didn't see any post asking the readers to compare using VirtualPC, GuestPC, and iEmulator. I am talking my employer into getting an iMac G5 for my desk (instead of the standard Dell at the office.) He told me I could if I'd be able to do some of the Windows only applications. . . . I wondered, which emulator was preferred by the readers? I understand none will run at full speed, but have your readers found ways to speed them up? "
If you only need to run Windows 95 level of computing power, I'd recommend Bochs. When I need to use Windows, I sometimes use VirtualPC. However, the fastest solution for me is to use the free Remote Desktop Connection to jump into one of the Windows boxes nearby. What does everyone else here do on such occasions?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
nathan mellin said 2:56PM on 11-10-2005
Great to all the comments, don't have VPC as it seemed to expensive at the moment. Thought iEmulator would be fine however, trying to install win2k on our G4 took 6+ hours!! Why don't they post this info?! That's cause win98 didn't come with a boot cd but a boot floppy (old technology) so since we were in a time crunch we tried win2k! Reason for that, for any readers out there, MAC doesn't get support from MS, latest browser is 5.2.3 for IE and there are many websites supporting only IE6 or greater!! I know - I work with vendors of such products! So are there other alternatives? Thanks - nathannnever@yahoo.co.uk
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LD said 3:01PM on 8-15-2005
I'm a switcher and I can't get rid of my XP machine for certain tasks. Since I already own a legal copy of XP and already own the computer, I find the free Remote Desktop from M$ to be sufficient. I don't see the need for an emulator for daily tasks (with the way I use my computers).
I don't have much experience with the emulators on the OS X side. I've always used VMWare on the Windows and Linux x86 side but nothing the other way round.
Keep in mind for your employer, it's going to start to get pretty expensive to buy you an iMac, buy you an emulator, buy you the necessary RAM, and buy you a second OS license (you'll need your Windows and your OS X license).
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narco said 3:57PM on 8-15-2005
I have a Powermac G5 and used Virtual PC for Soulseek (before the very cool Mac client came out) and it was unusable. It was just too slow, even for that tiny little application on a good machine with a ton of RAM. I haven't tried the other emulators, but then again I don't really have a use for them.
Fishes,
narco.
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David said 3:06PM on 8-15-2005
presumably the license is already there if his computer is being replaced for an imac. But i have to say i have done away with my windows computer in favour of using remote desktop to a windows file server which i can use for the rare time i need to use windows. It would be nice to be able to use apple remote desktop as it works nicely with other macs but not windows? I certainly couldnt get vnc setup to allow me access through ARD even though standard vnc clients worked!
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djhitman said 3:12PM on 8-15-2005
RDC/VNC is the way to go if you're able to have a Windows box for your use. It's a much better way to go than VirtualPC in my opinion.
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S.Fuller said 3:21PM on 8-15-2005
I'd echo the sentiments of the other posters. IF it's possible, then using Microsoft's RDP client to another machine on the network is the easiest thing to do. However, not all businesses have a spare machine laying about for people to just run random apps on, and most admins don't want to have a random user logging into their servers running applications.
If the RDP route will not work, then I would suggest spending the $100 on a Virtual PC license, and using one of your employers' windows licenses to get windows up and running. Make sure you have enough ram in your G5 to run both VPC and your OS X native apps at the same time. I'd suggest 512MB set aside for VPC, and a 512 to 1GB set aside for OS X.
I've used both approaches and each works well.
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soundboy64 said 3:32PM on 8-15-2005
I use Virtual PC off and on on a PowerBook G4 1.33ghz... 768MB ram... and although it is sluggish sometimes... I'd almost guess on a G5 iMac you could just pause Windows when not using it by pushing the command (apple key) + esc, which essentially will just pause Windows so you can hop into OS X and do whatever. It does however store everything in Windows in the ram which can slow the mac down a tad.... but on a G5 you should be fine. Also when you just close the Windows session and it saves itself, it's reasonable on my laptop for saving, but restore takes a minute or 2 sometimes... So all in all it's not that bad as long as you can tweak Windows XP to turn off all of it's pretty Eye candy crap... supposedly Windows 2000 runs the smoothest if you can go that route... Also be aware of some glitch that causes your Mac to have a kernel panic if you're running Virtual PC 7.0.2 and os x 10.4.2... it happened to me a couple of times, so I downgraded back to 7.0.1... The only other thing that can be goofy is Networking... sometimes a network connection will share with your mac and windows just fine... but sometimes you have to do virtual switch...
ok i'm done rambling...
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Don Strickland said 3:39PM on 8-15-2005
I've used Virtual PC for many years and continue to use it when I need Windows. The value of a virtual machine goes far beyond the obvious. I like to think of virtual machine as disposable, because it is so trivial to revert to a previous (clean) baseline. This means I can quickly (within minutes) recover from infections, malware, failed software upgrades, software tests gone sour and just bonehead mistakes.
A modern 1.5 GHz or faster Mac with 768 MB or more of RAM is plenty fast enough to support using both Tiger and Windows (I use W2K) business applications. My current machine is a 1.25 Ghz iMac with 768 MB of RAM and multiple users, but I used VPC (5 and then 6) on my PowerBook G4 667 Mhz with 512 MB of RAM for 4 years.
I still use Virtual PC 6.0 because I don't need more and I own it already. Friends tell me that GuestPC works well also.
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Brennan Stehling said 3:44PM on 8-15-2005
Look into Windows Virtual Server. You can basically run the application inside of an applet in the web browser, just like some do VNC inside the browser. I am unsure how well supported that would be in Safari, but it is well worth the look. You could possibly get co-workers moved over as well.
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Steve M said 3:57PM on 8-15-2005
I'll second the opinion that it is too expensive to get a G5 if you still need a lot of Windows apps, or have a specific Windows App that you use a lot. If I were the boss, I wouldn't go for it.
Virtual PC might work, but remember that if you are using Windows XP, the license is probably already tied to a piece of hardware, and moving the OS to a virtual PC will probably not be authorized by Microsoft.
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Oli said 3:58PM on 8-15-2005
I'm a web-developer, so I have to check all my sites in Internet Explorer 5 and 6 eventually. On my old G4/800 I used a cheap Wintel box and Microsoft Remote Desktop. But I have since upgraded to an iMac G5 (20", 1.8GHz) and Virtual PC is now fast enough, so I could get rid of the PC. Two caveats: 1. use Windows 2000, as XP is extrordinary slow, and 2. get RAM. Lots of it. I have 2 GB, which means I can continue working on the Mac side without a speed hit, even when VPC is loaded in the background.
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Don O'Shea said 4:20PM on 8-15-2005
RDC is a marvelous little application. I use a very high end optical design program that runs only with a dongle. I have a modest Dell Dimension in the basement (The Beast) on the LAN in my house (part CAT5, part wireless). Using RDC I can run sophisticated ray traces, while sitting at my Mac G5 and taking care of other business. Because of the dongle, there is no emulator that would permit me to do this. RDC for the Mac is the single program out of Redmond that has impressed me.
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Brian said 5:14PM on 8-15-2005
Thanks for the tips everyone. Luckily my boss doesn't care about the money part, he just wants to be sure that it won't slow me down. I assured him it wouldn't. I use a powerbook and have sold alot of iMacs and Powerbooks. I've just never used VirtualPC on one.
It does seem like Virtual PC is the overwhelming favorite here?
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mike said 6:44PM on 8-15-2005
I grabbed an old copy of virtual pc and took my friends XP and installed it..
wooo that was fun!
until the thing was installed..
installed updates..
restart..
installed updates..
restart..
okay.. i think it's working.. still have more patches to install..
okay what can i do with windows that i can't already do with OS X.. umm...this is useless..
I played some online poker (one of the sites that is windows only.. no java) then I got rid of it.
get a PS2 instead.
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Tijs Teulings said 7:05PM on 8-15-2005
I have a PC in a closet that i use as a test machine for the web applications i build. It doubles as a file server which is handy. The speed is quite acceptable on my lowly iBook except if i'm running lots of network intensive applications on the same lan, this really slows reaction time down to a crawl and makes the whole setup quite unworkable.
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Andrew Turner said 8:32PM on 8-15-2005
It really depends what you're going to be running on the Virtual PC. I have a PowerMac G5 dual 1.8 w/ 2GB RAM and I find the virtual PC usable, though definitely sluggish. Things 'snap' but with about a 1-2 second delay, so it's really a usability issue.
Therefore, if you're doing something that requires immediate feedback (a lot of quick clicking around on a lot of objects, lots of typing) then VPC may drive you insane. If you are doing slower type tasks (open a program, run it through, view the data, etc.) then it is acceptable.
I'm in the same boat as you are. Many of the apps my company makes are becoming cross-platform, except for our core application which is graphical (lots of dragging, opening dialog boxes, etc) as well as running OpenGL for visualization, and intensive in that it requires running the Visual Studio compiler.
So, I carry my old iBook G3 into work, RDC to some windows machines (which is incredibly fast) and do 70% of my work on it, but that last 30% of work needs a windows desktop and so my boss doesn't see the benefit of spending more money on a machine just to make me somewhat happier.
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Rich said 9:35PM on 8-15-2005
I HATE putting MS software on my Powerbook, so I am constantly testing stuff to find alternatives. For example, NeoOfficeJ is a great lternative to MS Office, and Keynote, of course, blows the socks off Powerpoint. That said, VPC is probably the only viable choice I recommend for realistic performance on a Mac today. Sadly, some apps just don't quite cut it, primarily Computer-based-training apps with animations and sound embedded.
Remember, on a machine that runs a lean, hardware-specific operating system, you are trying to run an app which contains a hardware emulator, inside of which is running a "one-size-fits-all" operating system, and then having that OS run a Windows app. Not exactly a set-up for blinding speed.
If you don't have or need a G5, I recommend VPC 6 running Windows 98SE or Windows ME. This is a lot leaner package than VPC7 with 2000 Pro or XP.
An alternative might be QEMUX, but it's relatively slow, and I haven't been able to share folders or files between the host and guest OS's. I'm all for trying GuestPC, but I haven't gotten to it yet.
Like the others, I've been using VNC and/or RDC for remote machines, but I've found my desktop setup to be really cool using "Synergy" to switch quickly between my Mac and PC workstations. I have a shared document folder on the PC which is on my Mac's desktop. SMOOOOTH!
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Baglan said 12:14AM on 8-17-2005
Just as some guys who already commented above, I'm a "switcher" (almost year and a half now) and a web developer. I have all the necessary software in OS X, but sometimes I test how sites behave in Internet Explorer for Windows. I'm using Windows Millenium as a "guest OS". It's pretty slow on my 1 GHz iBook :).
Patiently waiting for Intel-based Macs.
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bedouin said 11:19PM on 8-15-2005
I run VPC on a 800mhz G3 iBook and on a 1.4ghz G4 PowerMac (it was upgraded). Using XP in VPC on the PowerMac feels pretty smooth, while the iBook is just usable. Running the occasional app in XP on a G5 should be fine.
Out of all versions of Windows, the best for VPC I believe is NT4. NT4 simply flies in VPC, almost to the point where it feels native. Many apps can still run fine in NT4, so you should definitely check it out. You can obtain a copy of NT4 for nothing.
Between XP and 98SE, they both feel equally sluggish to me on slower hardware in VPC. However, there are some steps you can take to improve performance:
1) Download TweakUI and disable all eye candy.
2) Switch back to the classic Windows theme
3) Use a fixed disk size, not an expanding image
4) If running XP, convert the disk image to NTFS (98 or lower you have no choice but to use FAT)
5) 128mb ram for 98, NT4; 384mb for XP
6) Give VPC as much ram for video ram use as possible (maxes out at 16mb)
7) Disable dock integration
8) If you don't need it, disable USB
9) If you don't need networking, disable it
10) Set background CPU priority to medium
11) Set Windows color depth to 16 bits
12) Run VPC in the smallest resolution possible, say 800X600
Following these tips I have an install of XP on my PowerMac I feel is quite usable; it actually surprises me sometimes.
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Jan said 12:38PM on 8-16-2005
The Richard from iEmulator Support told me per email that "However, I'd be happy to provide some comparison information. VirtualPC does tend to run faster than iEmulator in most (but not all!) cases. It also is a more mature application, and provides better integration with the Mac environment than iEmulator does.
Having said that, iEmulator runs quite well, is very inexpensive, and ALL updates will always be free of charge to all customers. We hope to be at least on parity with VirtualPC by the release of version 2.0; iEmulator is not a static application!
In short, if cost is no object, we'd recommend looking very closely at VirtualPC. Right now it is a better product. If there is some cost sensitivity, please look closer at iEmulator. We think you'll be happy with it now, and it's only getting better!"
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