Filed under: Cool tools, Open Source
An Experimental Classic Environment for Intel Macs
One of
disadvantages with Apple's migration to Intel processors will be the loss of the Classic (Mac OS 9) environment. Apple
has said many times that the Classic environment will be incompatible with their Intel Macs. While this probably won't
be a problem for many users, organizations like schools (who may have limited money to upgrade their sofware) will
likely encounter a few situations where their new Intel Macs need a Classic environment to run a few applications.Enter Sheepshaver, an open source PowerPC runtime environment capable of running PowerPC Mac OS 9 applications. The developer has relased an experimental version of Sheepshaver compatible with Mac OS X 10.4.4 for Intel Macs.
Apple may have dropped support for Mac OS 7.x --> Mac OS 9.x applications with their move to Intel, but the open source community has provided us with a decent solution. When my Intel iMac finally arrives, I'll give this a whirl. Maybe C.K. can check it out in the meantime.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Stan Hodges said 10:31PM on 2-07-2006
Why waist your time trying to get old out of date software trying to work. Why not spend your time making switching code so that it will work on the intell, or better yet create something new.
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Don Wilson said 11:01PM on 2-07-2006
Loss of the Classic OS? Darn.
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Chris P said 11:30PM on 2-07-2006
Sorry but if an educational facility can get a budget for new Intel Macs then they should be able afford new up to date software too. Why teach kids with old technology? Do they have to play Oregan Trail?
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Stork said 11:33PM on 2-07-2006
Nawwww. Not for schools or institutions. I bet only a few diehards will use it. From the site, "However, you still need a copy of MacOS and a PowerMacintosh ROM image to use this program." See what I mean?!
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Damien Barrett said 11:45PM on 2-07-2006
Chris P, you need to spend some time in the educational system to really understand how budgets and purchasing works. Often, schools will have hardware budgets set many years in advance to allow for hardware to be refreshed every X number of years. However, the same is often not true for software puchasing.
To make a blanket statement that "just because schools can buy new Intel Macs, they should also be able to purchase new software to run on them" is, quite frankly, an ignorant statement. I know personally of quite a few educational institutions that are still running Mac OS 9 applications because it's all they have. And yes, they are running them often on relatively new equipment.
But then, you seem to think Oregon Trail is the only software used in a school, so I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to explain this to you.
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penginkun said 11:57PM on 2-07-2006
"Why waist [sic] your time trying to get old out of date software trying to work. Why not spend your time making switching code so that it will work on the intell [sic], or better yet create something new."
Because it's there? Oh, here's a better reason: Because there's a ton of old software which will NEVER be updated, and which hasn't been updated in ages. For whatever reason, maybe I WANT to play Might and Magic III, for instance.
You seem to have no interest in the Mac's past. That's fine. But don't automatically assume that because YOU have no interest that no-one else SHOULD have any interest.
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Henry said 12:42AM on 2-08-2006
OMG! I used to play Oregon Trail in fifth grade in our schools computer lab full of Mac Classics and first gen iMacs! That and Hyperstudio, Type to Learn, and Coca (some sort of game design software). I remember all the macs were powered by one big G3 Tower server. I was all like, wow! The very latest in Macintosh Tech!
I'll stop rambling now.
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rishabh said 12:56AM on 2-08-2006
Oh Cmon, if the schools were to buy the new intel iMacs, they would obviously get the new software too; the author should stop cribbing about such pesky things and post something of more relevance..
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Michael Sykes said 1:29AM on 2-08-2006
I'm curious, what software are schools still running in the Classic/OS9 environment? I've been out of the K->12 school system for way too long to have a clue.
I wonder if there's an issue of old programs simply not being available in OS X versions, in addition to cost issues. It seems like you can outfit a Mac very cheaply with iLife, which is included with new Macs, as well as the great freeware and shareware programs out there. So I'd like to know what apps are holding these schools back.
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Snaggy said 1:55AM on 2-08-2006
Nitrozac and I still use Fireworks 4 in Classic, since the latest OS X version of Fireworks doesn't have the performance of the OS 9 version. It's just too s l o w .
Ironically, Fireworks 4 runs faster in Classic than it ever did in OS 9. :-D
So yeah, we would have a use for something like Sheepshaver if we ever get Intel Macs.
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Squib said 3:08AM on 2-08-2006
I just want to mirror Damian's comments. Having worked for years as a developer of educational software, I've experienced the result of what he was talking about: the money for new hardware does not come from the same place as money for software. And while over the past handful of years there has been a lot of money for upgrading/buying newest technology, we always encountered the problem of schools strugging to find money to buy software. So old programs take on legs that would shock many people outside the system.
On the flipside, I worked for a small company. The software we made is still as applicable as ever... but our own budget/ability to upgrade the titles to not need Classic--especially in a money-starved market--is not there. As a result some of these otherwise decent programs will die because of Classic going the way of the dodo.
On a personal level, I have a few programs--RealWorld's Ceremony of Innocence, the first few You Don't Know Jack games--that I know will never make the jump either and will be missed. Not end-of-the-world kind of things I admit, but still...
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Daniel Kroc said 3:43AM on 2-08-2006
A company called Reflecture (www.Reflecture.com) out of Hong Kong did a research project for Apple in Asia and found that:
1. Education software does not need to be updated nearly as often as productivity apps. Kids tend to learn the same stuff every year and each year there is a new batch of students that need to learn the same content.
2. Schools tend to stick to what works as the administrators have little incentive to upgrade whereas corporations are always looking to improve productivity and security.
3. Schools spend proportionally more on software than hardware as they usually get steep discounts on software.
4. Many educational institutions will be slow to upgrade to Intel-based Macintoshes.
5. There is some great educational software from small developers that has not even been ported to OS X yet alone Intel OS X. Some of these titles do not have a replacement in OS X or Windows - and the market is not big enough for an enterprising developer to create a viable replacement.
The conclusion is that OS 9 is still needed in educational institutions. And in Asia much publishing is still done using OS 9 as Quark has not released an OS X version yet for some languages.
There is still a small chance that Apple will release an Intel compatible version of OS 9. It is all in the numbers.
Daniel Kroc
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guitarist said 5:24AM on 2-08-2006
"solution"? That suggests there's a "problem". As I recall, OS 7-9 was the "problem", and OSX is the solution.
Are they thinking of coming with a telegraph, too? As a "solution" to the telephone "problem"?
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Radu Dutzan said 7:34AM on 2-08-2006
That was Snaggy!! From Geek Culture and the Joy of Tech!! OMG!!!
Oh, and hey, if they have time and the need to do this, great, let them, and if you find it useless, I'd recommend the TV metaphore: change the channel and forget about it.
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Billy K said 9:43AM on 2-08-2006
I still run a couple of OS9 audio apps that have to real equal in OSX. I currently have a G5 iMac, but plan to get an Intel Mac next year. When I do that, I'll be without two critical apps.
My solution was to buy a 600Mhz G3 iMac. It's fast enough, boots into OS9 or OSX, and can serve as a backup if my G5 iMac ever takes a dive. And it's kinda cute.
A legacy application needs a legacy computer!
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Sam W said 12:23PM on 2-08-2006
I am a sys admin in a graphic design and marketing firm. We have the latest G5 systems... blah blah blah... The idea of loosing classic support is an issue for US. Why?? We still have clients (who pay us real $) that require us to use Illustrator 8 and Quark 4. Do we have the new versions, oh ya, but there are REAL world reasons to keep Classic. Also working in an education world for a few years I will reiterate what was said. $ for software does not come from the same budget as $ for hardware and the private university I worked at we still had software that ran in Classic and though I did what I could before I left to get the ball rolling to replace it some of the software simply was not available anymore due to companies going out of business and there were no quality replacement products. So seeing that software like this is out there in an early stage is a big positive for me.
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Navypoo said 2:37PM on 2-08-2006
If schools don't have money to upgrade the software, then might I recommend NOT BUYING NEW HARDWARE??
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Phil Roach said 2:59PM on 2-08-2006
I work in a High school district, for 14 years now.
It is easier to buy the hardware, than software. Software usually comes from several different pots of money, while the hardware is purchased as a district purchase.
I have a teacher gradebook application we have for OS9. The district refused to pay the $20 upgrade price to get the OSX version. The company would only accept a school p.o., so two years later no $20 and we still use 9. The browsers are the biggest problem, cause they are so out of date.
The district would rather send 600Mhz iMac DV's with 512meg ram to salvage for scrap metal prices than buy software. Public education is a strange beast.
They just got done forcing PC's in our campus's this last summer. They require SO much support, and as far as abilities, we have taken a 5 year stepback. So through the politics of the district and personal preferences. We have removed so many capabilities that people have gone back to copiers and just avoiding the electronic delivery entirly. I know this stuff can be done on pc to match what we had, but it will require so much extra software. I doubt they will ever purchase it. Oh they did pay the grade book company for a new site licence for windows. Once again avoiding the $20 upgrade per school = $240, site licence = $2500+.
I just spend my day fighting virus's. Waste of time, and the ugly dell boxs can never replace the beauty of the Snow iMac's we had in the classrooms and labs.
So as you can see, they would rather pay for new hardware than pay $20 for a software upgrade. I know this seems strange to people not in public education, but it is the norm!!
If you want to make a big difference in your kid's day. Ask them about the computers they use, and if there are issues. The parents are the only ones that can make a difference in public education, getting involved in your kid's school is the best thing you can do.
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Stork said 5:11PM on 2-08-2006
From my previous post, #4, I stated that it would be tough for institutions to deal with having to have a Mac ROM code for each Intel Mac running Sheepshaver. Well, a posting at today's (2/8/06) MacIntouch.com convinced me that it's not that painful.
"Kevin Lepard shared some notes on one of the first "Classic" emulators to run on Intel Macs, Gwenol?eauchesne's Sheepsaver:
According to the Sheepshaver's documentation, the ROM from the iMac 1.1 update works. The iMac 1.1 update is still available from Apple; I just downloaded it.
You have to use TomeViewer under Classic to extract the ROM. I was unable to find a way to expand it from the tome under OS X directly, creating a bit of a catch-22. Anyone know of a way to access a tome under OS X without Classic? Still, I think most people who are wanting to run Classic on a Intel-based Mac would have access to a macine that is currently able to run TomeViewer to obtain the ROM. (Just don't lose it later!) ...[SNIP]..."
I downloaded the iMac 1.1 Update and archived it for a rainy day project. If you need Classic, I'd recommend you do the same.
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Steve Rhodes said 6:53PM on 2-08-2006
I think another loss would be all the Voyager CD-ROMs.
I haven't run them since I moved to OS X, but I think they will only work on Classic.
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