Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Mac mini, Macbook Pro
Another Roadblock in Dual-Booting Mac OS X & Vista
Those
hoping to be able to dual-boot the Intel Macs once Microsoft ships Vista (late this year?) may have to wait a bit
longer. Today, Dan Warne of APC Magazine
reported that Microsoft has announced that the first version of Vista will not have support for computers that use
EFI firmware and that Microsoft may include
EFI support at a later date for Vista.Why on earth would Microsoft do this? I suppose it could be for technical reasons that we're not aware of, but I don't see why Microsoft couldn't just ship Vista without BIOS support instead, and anyone who wanted to upgrade to Vista would just have to buy a new PC, which is what most people will be doing anyway. Why willingly block machines with EFI to run Vista? But I suppose it might be that Microsoft is afraid to let users see Mac OS X and Vista side-by-side on the same computer.
It's quite clear EFI is the future and BIOS is the past. Apple is embracing one while Microsoft seems chained to the other.
![TUAW [Cafepress]](http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tuaw.com/media/tuaw-cafepress-promo.png)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sam said 1:18PM on 3-10-2006
Isn't all this chatter about booting to Windows moot when running windows applications maybe on the horizon with Wine? Why run the OS when you can run the program? Booting into Windows to run windows applications lacks elegance. Is there an advantage I'm missing?
Reply
Dan Siercks said 1:20PM on 3-10-2006
EFI actually has support built in to emulate BIOS function, so PC motherboards with EFI will still allow operating systems with only BIOS support to boot. Since Apple has never used BIOS, they had no reason to leave that functionality of EFI in any of the models they ship.
Reply
Chris said 1:25PM on 3-10-2006
You gotta know that Windows on a Mac is only bad news for Microsoft in the long term. Some people claim it's great for them as they'd sell more copies of Windows. But honestly, after using both, who is going to stick with Windows? No one (very few, anyway). They'll gravitate toward OS X, and use Windows only for the apps that need it. And OS X app development will increase (not decrease per the concerns of some critics) thus decreasing users' need for Windows even more.
The last thing Microsoft wants is to encourage sales of Macs where customers get an honest chance to experience both operating systems and develop a truly informed preference. Microsoft is always afraid of a fair fight. Always.
Reply
Bill Sweatt said 1:30PM on 3-10-2006
How would you like to tell 100 million people that their current PC is not Vista compatible? If Vista required EFI, every current PC would become obsolete. Microsoft is trying to forestall this event.
Now if there was a way to Vista to run with either BIOS or EFI...
On the other hand, Apple had a brand new computer with a brand new operating system. They had no legacy concerns.
Personally, I'm surprised that Apple left out BIOS support (as mentioned by Dan above). This makes installing Windows XP impossible. You'd think they'd want to encourage hardware sales for whichever OS is used. I guess they felt that it might generate too many support calls.
Reply
Stephen Antonucci said 1:46PM on 3-10-2006
Seems to me that Apple has been little help in getting Windows apps to run on OS X. Apple is clearly not seeing the big picture and leaving it to third parties without much assistance in getting legancy Windows apps running even in emulation, never mind full speed. If this continues they miss a great opportunity to gain marketshare and more users mindshare. Microsoft, clearly has an interest in selling Windows to Mac users, but in a crippled slower way. Do not depend on the Wine project to replace Windows on Mac OS X. Running Windows apps on OS X in a window at full speed is what is important, I doubt Wine will be there for many apps. It is Apple who needs to increase marketshare, not M$. MS still dominates the desktop and Apple should seize this chance to end run them! Many people I work with have not bought new MacBook Pros due to no Windows support. They need to run Windows apps and will not carry two machines, everyday. Just the loss of Virtual PC has stopped some sales, until it is back working, probably emulating and running slow!
Stephen Antonucci
www.reelsmart.com
Reply
LD said 1:48PM on 3-10-2006
Every single blog I have read about this has reported it absolutely incorrectly.
Vista 32-bit will not support EFI. This is not an issue as Apple is the only company that uses a 32-bit processor with EFI for booting.
64-bit Vista will support EFI as EFI is the norm for new 64-bit CPUs.
Please, report correctly and don't sensationalize.
Reply
Karl Armstrong said 1:53PM on 3-10-2006
By delaying EFI support, Microsoft knows perfectly well they are also delaying EFI PCs. I don't think Microsoft is too worried about people running Windows on Apple hardware; I do think they are very afraid of people running OS X on PC hardware. When PC venders start shipping EFI boxes, it could make booting OS X a little easier - and a whole lot easier if Apple chooses to make it so.
Reply
kevin said 2:04PM on 3-10-2006
so windows drops/delays yet another part of vista... no surprise
Reply
kevin said 2:05PM on 3-10-2006
i mean microsoft. but you get it.
Reply
van helsing said 2:06PM on 3-10-2006
If you want to run windows, get a PC. They are cheap. If you want to run Mac OS X, get a Mac. As simple as that.
Reply
Dave said 2:32PM on 3-10-2006
It's even worse... MS has stated that in 2007 when they do update Windows Vista to support EFI, it will ONLY support EFI and 64 bit processors. By then Apple will have the whole lineup on dual core 64 bit processors from Intel, but every Intel mac sold now will NEVER have Vista support unless there is some virtual machine type program ala VirtualPC. Horrible bummer of a day for us early adopters.
Reply
mac worthy said 2:33PM on 3-10-2006
If I could boot windows, I would sell my Dell laptop, needed to run software with no Mac equivalent, and purchase a MacBook. As it is, I am trapped into maintaining the Dell. Not everyone can affort two laptops, and I can't imagine anyone wanting to travel with two machines. I am one lost sale to Apple. How many more are there?
Reply
Jan Peters said 2:46PM on 3-10-2006
I believe that M$ is afraid of fuzzying the border between Windows and Mac as they need Mac to be visible as a competitor who has an easy time against them. This helps them to stay out of anti trust investigations similar how PowerPC+AMD+others together. Additionally, they don't want Linux to come up as an all-plattform Unix it would be a real threat for M$, helping Mac hurts Linux and therefore helps M$.
...but I still love Mac OS X more than any other OS.
Best,
jan-peters.net
Reply
Bren said 3:05PM on 3-10-2006
Who uses Windows ???
If use windows in work, it's time to tell the boss, there's a better way!
"Hey boss! Did you hear about this other system, called Mac OSX ?? It comes will all apple computers, and it's much easier to use, more powerful, and more modern than Windows!"
At which point your boss would say: "that's impossible, if that kind of system was available I would be using it".
At which point you say: "I know that's what I said before I started".
So here's the point! Convince you boss to take the easy route, and go the apple way, then you will never have worry about that other crappy system called windows again.
Reply
Mark Scrimshire said 3:34PM on 3-10-2006
I have to agree with entry 1 - Sam and disagree with entry 9 - Van Helsing.
Dual booting is not a priority. We want emulation within OS X. So we can take advantage of OS X and just have windows for those apps we absolutely have to run.
Buying a PC is not always a realistic option. Those of us that have a mobile existence and a need to hook in to client environments have a need to run PC applications but don't want to have to carry around 2 machines. Up to now we have accepted the performance degradation of running VPC on a PowerBook G4 because OS X benefits outweigh the downside of a slower running windows.
We don't even necessarily need to be able to run Windows XP. Windows 2000 runs faster on VPC and typically most windows apps will run on either platform.
Reply
Microdot said 3:41PM on 3-10-2006
"How would you like to tell 100 million people that their current PC is not Vista compatible?"
hate to break the news to you pal... but there are a lot more than that who have pc's that wont run vista, and it has nothing to do with efi or bios. even in teh stripped down, no frills install... it is so fat and bloated, that it takes over an HOUR to install on a typical 2ghz p4. thats install alone... not updates, setup, etc. the thing is a sea cow that couldnt move quick to save its life. you almost HAVE to have a speedy machine to even consider it.
Reply
Pete said 4:34PM on 3-10-2006
I want to play motherf'in games on my Mac which requires dual booting. There's no way you could play a game in VM since you need DirectX drivers
Reply
Dan Warne said 5:46PM on 3-10-2006
LD wrote: "Every single blog I have read about this has reported it absolutely incorrectly. Vista 32-bit will not support EFI. [...] 64-bit Vista will support EFI as EFI is the norm for new 64-bit CPUs."
I'm sorry but it is you who is wrong. At the IDF presentation that I was at yesterday (and an audio recording is available on the apcmag.com website) Microsoft announced that there would be NO EFI SUPPORT in Windows Vista client when it ships - either 32 or 64 bit.
The first time any EFI support will ship will be in Longhorn Server, and then a "future version" of Windows Client will be released with EFI compatibility (and THEN it will be only for 64-bit systems).
You're operating on old information/presumptions.
Reply
Reg said 6:02PM on 3-10-2006
van helsing> "If you want to run windows, get a PC. They are cheap. If you want to run Mac OS X, get a Mac. As simple as that."
My backpack is getting awfully heavily with two full laptops inside, and do I really need two of everything?
Reply
kungfumaniac said 2:52AM on 3-11-2006
As a current owner of 2 laptops: a Powerbook G4 15" and a compaq armada, somwtimes the professional needs both Mac and Windows. Tech companies thrive on standards and demand their employeed use windows to adhere to such standards. After nearly getting fired for being a mac evangelist and having my network privileges revoked, dual booting is essential fo those of us employed in windows world.
No matter how much I actively and vocallydisagree with my superiors' beliefs antics and courses of action in the matter, convincing one;s boss that OS X is a better, more secure, more versatile platform than Windoze is not as easy as simply telling them so.
At least I can find solace in the fact that about 70% of my colleagues own ipods......
Reply