The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)

Macs come with a lil more than just an iWork Demo. Office 2004 Trial comes to mind here. The positive thing is, they just don't interfere with you when you're starting up your computer.

I don't remember if the Omnioutliner is trialware, but I'm sure there are other items.

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"The ad is now available on Apple's website in a variety of sizes."

I see what you did there ...

haha

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What are these then:

Microsoft Office Test Drive in 101 different languages;

iWork trial;

Tons of printer drivers and unwanted language translations;

iLife ( except iPhoto and iTune, the rest i never use. )

and more.

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While Apple may have conveniently forgotten to mention their own included trialware, any who has ever set up a PC can tell you that there is absolutely no comparison. The included Mac trialware doesn't launch at startup and is as easy as dragging to the trash if you wish to remove them. A new PC can come bundled with invasive anti-malware programs that do more harm than good, and manufacturer support utilities that persistently nag the user to purchase a new antivirus subscription or an extended warranty. :( Many of these utilities (like Norton, for instance,) require the user to download a removal tool from the company's website if you want a clean uninstall without having to muck through the registry.

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There truly is no comparison to the level of bloatware trial apps that come pre-loaded on an HP, Gateway, Dell, Toshiba or any other Major PC Manufacturer for that matter and what Apple puts on their systems.

Everything is a "full" version except iWork and Office.

Try comparing that to an HP system that I just unboxed for a friend this afternoon...

Mcafee Antivirus, Norton Antivirus, SpySweeper, MS Office, MS Works, a good 50 games, and a ton of HP made crap that starts the second your computer loads and takes up a good 200MB of memory by themselves.

When a "registration wizard" takes up 76MB of Active Memory, then someone really needs to reassess what concise means and maybe look at doing a single code review once in the entire life of a project.

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#4: Yeah, whenever I reinstall XP I spend a good 1-2 hours uninstalling the crap, disabling half of the processes and changing the annoying default settings.

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Eric we're talking about trial software here. iLife isn't trial software and the tons of printer drivers and language translations can come in handy if you have a laptop. They're what makes Macs just work.

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Indeed, apple is guilty of including trial software too, however, omnioutliner and omnigraffle were full versions. They also used to include the full graphic converter at one time. The other trial sw they include on some machines is Filemaker.

And yeah there is a big difference because the software is clearly marked as trial and is run only when the user wishes to. Also, a lot of the bloat comes from pc vendors rather than MS.

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I just a new Dell, and I can confirm that there are TOO much junk already installed. Lots of trialware that sometimes even replaces standard Windows functionality, like image preview.

Google desktop was one of the applications installed, but I found that I really enjoyed the posibility so search almost as fast as spotlight. Standard Windows- and Outlook search are terrible.

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Exactly. The Mac comes with things you will most likely need. You most likely Need iLife so they Give it to you. You will most likely need every printer driver in the world so that you Never have to install printer drivers. If you are seriously pressed for space you could get rid of some but, I, myself, use about 7 different brand printers and having the drivers for every one of them without having to install anything is a Godsend. Microsoft Office trial is to make you feel secure if you are a switcher.
One thing I don't understand is the OmniGroup. I love OmniWeb, but the other things just annoy me... get rid of them Apple.

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Talking about language support and printer drivers in order to get the PC OEMs of the hook really is ridiculous. It's kind of useful to have support for the language/s that users will be using; the same goes for printers.

Moreover, I wouldn't want Microsoft Office for Mac myself, but (a) Office is not exactly crapware, and (b) the trial offer can be "uninstalled" simply by dragging it to the bin.

A new PC these days from the likes of Dell, HP, or Sony is sheer hell. It's no exaggeration to say that the pleasure of ownership is spoiled on first boot. The software loaded on them is not only a waste of space, it is importunate. Much of it is loading on startup and demanding to be registered. That's importunate - and a waste of machine resources. And it takes, hours - literally, hours - to clean this stuff off. You have to run msconfig and track down _what_ is loading on startup (on Windows, everyone feels free to put something in startup) by matching cryptic names against online lists:

http://www.sysinfo.org/startuplist.php

You can then stop the stuff loading on startup and begin removing it. After running the Windows uninstallers you then have to find and remove manually what the uninstallers have left behind. (I suppose one might also search the Windows Registry and remove orphaned entries that the uninstallers left, but that can cause problems, so I don't. However those redundant Registry entries do slow the machine and can cause problems. So, actually, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.) After you've done this, you actually begin to get decent boot times.

Crapware is a _major_ nuisance on Windows, and in fact I'd say far worse than Walt Mossberg, who recently commented on it, realizes.

Heck, some OEms have apparently been insouciant enough to distribute crapware on machines that was written for an earlier version of Windows than the one they were shipping and had software conflicts with the version of Windows they were shipping. Microsoft was worried they'd do that with Vista and said so.

So this is a good theme for an Apple ad to target. I think members of the public out there will recognize Hodgman's problem and will turn over in their minds, perhaps for the first time, the thought that this situation can be avoided by buying a Mac.

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You don't have to spend hours uninstalling stuff with a new PC. Whenever I got a new PC the first thing I did was wipe the drive and reinstall windows clean. Then I would look through the bundled software and install only those bits I wanted. Then I would install my own stuff. Of course, that was before I got a mac. Now I just open the thing and get to work :)

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I wish it was as easy as re-installing windows. Many manufacturers nowadays (e.g. Toshiba laptops) only provide the customer with an image of the system as it was bought with all the crap it came with.

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Heh heh this commercial is almost as funny as the Cancel or Allow. The best thing about the Get a Mac ads is not the points they make, but that sometimes the humour is really show; like funny enough to be not a commercial at all and you would still want to watch it if it were part of a sitcom or something. Hodgman is largely responsible but one should never overlook the role of the straight man; it's something that is easy to mess up if you overplay it.

As for the printer drivers and languages; well, wanting the printer drivers is a no-brainer. That doesn't even need answering. That's like saying 'Who needs food'? As for the languages, I uninstalled all of those spare languages once, and I found that some English websites do use special characters from international fonts for decoration and whatnot, and now they appear to me to have gunked up symbols and stuff. The Mac knew exactly what it was doing with the standard install. I should have just stayed out of its way; I won't make that mistake again.

Compare this experience with what happens to you when you first sit down at a brand new PC, and then end up wishing that IT would get out of YOUR way. Completely 180 degree opposite.

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I wish Apple would feature ads that show off their native software-like iLife, iWork, Logic Express, Final Cut Express, and so on. I just don't really like these ads. There well conceived,but honestly, "PC" is lovable and "Mac" is disingenuous and dull.

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The answer to the PC bloatware problem, which is a very real problem, is this: reinstall the OS. I know, it's a pain and may take a few hours, but look at it this way: you get a fresh OS, without modifications, and you don't have any documents to back up while the PC's new. Point of the story: make a computer decision based on hardware merits and personal preference, not on packaged software.

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Having done numerous installs of Win9x/2k/XP I have a real good idea of what Microsoft includes. Just the OS stuff (which has numerous things probably don't need at this time) and some junk that was required by the government. (Remember all those lawsuits?)

The other trialware you are finding was put there by the OEM, not Microsoft. I hate that shovelware, but some people like it. Of course, how many OEMs make Apple Computers these days? (Isn't it just Apple Corporation?)

One of the problems is that OEMs think the trialware is an inexpensive way to differentiate their product and add perceived value for the customer. It's too bad that most customers don't know how useless that shovelware usually is, and that there are lots of very good low cost or even free alternatives out there. Especially among the open source community.

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"The answer to the PC bloatware problem, which is a very real problem, is this: reinstall the OS."

No, that isn't an answer.

These days consumer-grade Windows PCs don't ship with an OS CD. This is Microsoft's fault: they discourage the OEMs from shipping them because they are worried about "software piracy".

Most ship with "restore CDs" or, more likely now, a hidden partition. Either way the customer is screwed because "restoring" the machine to a "clean" factory condition also restores the crapware.

Notice, too, you're screwed a year or so down the road when you want to reinstall - as is necessary regularly on Windows, owing to Registry bloat and general "bit rot" - because all the crapware you painstakingly removed comes right back with your reinstall.

Better to wipe the darn drive and install Ubuntu:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Businesses do not have this problem, because business-grade machines don't come with this rubbish on, because the OEMs know business wouldn't put up with it. And, in any case, medium to large businesses will have a site licence for Windows and will simply wipe the hard-drive on a new machine and install an image of their standard setup anyway.

But home users are screwed.

Goodness me, Robert Scoble who only recently left Microsoft where he was employed as Technical Evangelist just commented on the crapware problem. Scoble said "Get a mac".

http://scobleizer.com/2007/04/06/blame-doj-for-bad-vista-startup-experience/

When someone with a background like that says "Get a Mac", you know there's a real problem.

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I never thought about this problem because the last PC I had had a clean hard drive, and of course I had a copy of Windows. But when the PC is called "bloated" as opposed to Macs, the way applications are handled come to mind. On Macs, they are single .app "files" that are self-contained, can be placed anywhere, and they rarely act unlike most Mac apps(extra files go to the same directory, etc.). On Windows, it's a different thing. Their pieces are generally scattered all over the system, so not all files are in Program Files. "DLL-hell" and the registry, that Bertrand Serlet mentioned in WWDC06, are big nuisances because they complicate the system. I have only realised these things when I started using a Mac, and I can't comment much on the subject because I have never had the courage to actually go and try to understand what was happening in PCs. Although I can say that the connexion between WinXP(maybe Vista too) and Win95 is very apparent ("spaghetti code"), and that is the "lightness" I see in Mac OS X, where the decision to dump Classic MacOS was a wise decision.

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I work with Macs and PCs. It is a sad fact that these advertisements are not accurate at all. PCs don't come with tons of trialware. But... HPs, Dells etc.. do! If you don't want trialware choose another pc vendor. Vote with your dollars!
Try the same thing with a Mac.. oops.. forgot.. there are no other vendors... You have no choice. You have to purchase from Apple. You are a mindless automaton that will simply do what you are told.
Want no choices, want to be spoonfed, want to be treated like a child? Then buy a Mac!
Want choices, buy a PC. Very simple.

The truth of the matter is that Macs are not for serious users. As such most software vendors simply don't bother writing software for them. Thats why Macs come with so much apple software preloaded. No one else bothers (with the exception of the big vendors.. Adobe, Microsoft, etc).

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