The last time I was writing software for Leopard it was still hellishly buggy, with a HUGE number of show-stopper bugs in the OS. While developers certainly could hack their way around them, it isn't the right thing to do.

For many companies, including my own at the time, Leopard simply wasn't stable enough for us to even contemplate testing on it.

It's been a while since I've been there, so I don't know how well the code has stabilized, but in any case 2 months between first real stable build and release is not enough time for maintainers of huge apps to bring their apps in line.

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Doing a full QA test requires a lot of time and a lot of resources. I don't blame them for not running this on beta. They would need to run their QA tests with every beta that apple releases, so they might as well just wait for the last one.

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I have access to a Leopard seed and have the full compliment of CS3 apps (well the Designer pack + Fireworks) and can confirm that they do indeed run like grade A crap. Numerous problems as reported to Apple have been:

• Random crashes in all CS3 apps
• Input box problems and sliders do not work properly in all CS3 apps
• You canot run Photoshop for longer than 20 minutes before it either crashes on you or causes your Mac to stall and even the simplest tasks like nudging a layer cause the spinning beach ball of death.
• Flash has serious display issues when looking at more than one document.
• Various save problems in Illustrator and problems when opening more than one document (two windows open, can;t close the first one).

These are just the ones off the top of my head but the list I sent through to Apple was extensive. This is on top of a lot of bugs in both Mail.app and Safari.

I think Adobe is just reminding Apple that they need to shape up and put their fears to rest because the deadline is looming and if Adobe need to make any changes then they need to do so now before it is too late.

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This is basically Adobe reminding Apple that if they want the top-tier apps to be WORKING on Leopard, they'll have to give them at least a couple of weeks with a version that Apple considers to be bugfixed.

Presumably pleas to DTS are going unanswered or something and they're having a strop.

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It sounds more to me like someone, somewhere along the line, picked up one thing a person said and blew it up.


Real Conversation:
Reporter: "So, how are sales of CS 3?"
Adobe: "Sales have been phenominal! We've been able to break into new markets-"
Reporter: "Great.. Great. So, what about the iPhone?"
Adobe: "Um... we don't have anything to do with the iPhone. We like it and all-"
Reporter: "Super. How about Apple's new OS?"
Adobe: "We love it so far! We haven't recieved a final copy yet-"
Reporter: "So, you're apps COULD break under the new OS?"
Adobe: "Well, as I said, we haven't fully tested it-"
Reporter: "So, if I upgrade, my Copy of Photoshop WON'T WORK????"
Adobe: "If there's any problems, we'll fix it as fast as we can..."
Reporter: "Front Page!!! Adobe apps won't work with Apple's new OS!!!"
Adobe: "That's not exactually what I said -"
Adobe: "Hello? Hello?"

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Adobe becomes more and more insufferable the worse their applications get. I've really had it with them.

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I don't blame them for not doing full testing on a beta, but it did seem odd to me for them to randomly announce that they haven't fully tested an unfinished OS that doesn't even have a ship date yet. This explanation makes sense, though.

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http://web.mac.com/solomon210/iWeb/Solo/PC%27s%20Can%27t.html

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Go get em Steve.

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tamaracks: I suspect it's an attempt by Adobe to shame Apple into fixing some of the more egregious bugs in Leopard. Back when I was coding for it, the response time for bug fixes was ridiculous - turns out the OS team has really thinned out due to the iPhone - hopefully they've shoved those guys back into Leopard dev now, but perhaps fixes aren't happening as quickly as they should.

Remember, if CS3 crashes it doesn't necessarily mean it's Adobe's fault, it could be due to a bug in Leopard. In fact, given what I know of Leopard's stability, it is MORE likely to be Apple's fault than Adobe's.

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Even Apple's own apps run like crap on Leopard. Aperture crashes frequently and preview thumbnails get easily corrupted. iMovie '08 won't even launch. You can't retrieve photos from iPhone (not to Aperture and iPhoto '08 anyway). Mail.app runs like a dog.

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Solo: Eek, I love Apple and all but those statements on that website are misinformed.

Leopard is a beta OS and most software developers are going to have to test and make some changes to their software for them to work like they did in Tiger. CS3 shipped like 6 months ago and I'm sure Adobe is working with Apple to make sure CS3 works with Leopard. It's in both company's best interests.

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while it is likely that a lot of problems are from leopard, chances are that the core of the OS has been changed enough that a lot of programs will have to be rebuilt to make them work properly. On the other hand I remember the keynotes from steve jobs' rearrival at apple up until right before panther came out. it was always third party apps making the highlight at MacWorld. Now steve has gone away from his begging mode and is starting to kick the developers around again... Apple has to remember to play nice sometimes... they aren't king of the road yet.

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What do I think??? I think that by the time leopard hits, Pixelmator should be out and I (hopefully) won't need to wait for Adobe to get their butts into gear!

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Those Adobe guys should go to Hell in my oppinion.
They deliver bad software and that very very slow.
They wander over to microsoft.
Monopolize the shit out of the grapics software business.

Therese a better software? -Pah, let's buy it and quit it's development. As we did with the macromedia stuff.

How long did it take them to go to the new intel chipsets and then not even universal binary.... lame

When theres an Alternative to CS (not bought by adobe emediately, I'll switch within seconds.)
The continuing part is not made for childs ears:
**** you adobe for making my life as an graphics designer even harder!!

**** you developers for being to lazy to rewrite from ground up, instead of updating updatinf and updating from the version of Thomas Knoll to CS3.

**** you I hope you burn in Hell Adobe.

Sincerly, bultie

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@bultie
I hope you have someone who writes copy FOR you.. because your spellcheck sucks.

I would go out on a limb here and say that there might be a reason we havent seen Flash for mobile safari yet....

Personally, i love Adobe.

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Fuck you developers for being to lazy to rewrite from ground up, instead of updating updatinf and updating from the version of Thomas Knoll to CS3.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you don't program.

To rewrite everything from scratch would entail a delay many, many times over what we have now. Occasionally it is best to just start afresh (as Adobe did with InDesign) but that's rarely the best solution.

It kind of bugs me how people think developing and testing code with millions upon millions lines of code is something that is easy. Whether it be Microsoft, Apple, or Adobe. And adding more programmers doesn't always help. It often makes things worse.

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The main reason I buy Mac is because of the way the OS handles these top-tier programs. My livelihood depends upon these programs working, and working well! If the next OS isn't prepared to handle these already-released, updated programs which we've spent hundreds (and at times thousands) of dollars on, then there is no point in even trying to upgrade.

Leopard needs to be more than just about Mac. It needs to be about what life is like with Mac + other software.

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I think he's implying that Apple has yet to provide them with a final version to run tests on.

I smell a push-back! Don't do it Apple! It's just too 'Vista'....

Shouldn't we be getting a release date soon? October isn't that far away (though if they stick to October I'm sure we'll be getting it the 31st)

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