Carmack fighting with Jobs about gaming on the Mac

The thing with Music and Videos, is that Apple has created an affinity to the iPod and the mac along with itunes. With games, they're one hit wonders other than a handful of franchises and there is no affinity to hardware. The console market continues to be a losing business to everyone except Nintendo. Apple can't create an ecology around gaming right now, that's why they don't care other than providing the tools for others to do it, which they do.

@adrian: "I don't like the idea of gaming on the Mac. Not happy about that?, Then buy a console."

Oh? Well I *DO* like the idea of gaming on the Mac. Not happy about that? Sucks to be you, eh?

Thanks Tony, I'm glad you pointed that out. The issue by far is that Apple is being very prudent with their access of iPhone/iPod Dev environment. JC says that the Emulator is a horrible environment to develop for, not Steve is being a jerk to him over making games for Apple. I get the feeling that Big JC keeps approaching Mr. Jobs at high profile events and asking for more access to the heart of the platforms so its easier to program for. Look You know as well as I do that if apple was all loosey goosey with their Kool-ade Pod voodoo , we would have seen a "Zune Commu-∃-kator" before Christmas. Just remember, It wasn't too long ago that "This thing call an iPod" didn't seem to be as great as they said, and now you have to go more that 30 minutes outside of an urban area, to not see those white headphones everywhere...

...oh yeah and most mobile games suck. so who cares about Doom RPG for the "i" something.

You know, I used to lobby for Mac games for years. I was a huge fan of Myth, Marathon, Diablo II, heck, I loved Ancient Art of War. Remember when being a Mac person involved a fair amount of defensiveness? I mean, Macs are hip, Macs are cool now, but it certainly wasn't the case for much of the 90s. The only people MORE defensive were Mac gamers--we were always writing letters to get more games on the Mac and were often stymied (remember Half Life??)..

I must admit, I have given up on games on the Mac. I have an Xbox 360 and it's a fantastic gaming platform. I love it. The only time that I started playing games on the Mac was when World of Warcraft came out, but after awhile, I just got bored and then...nothing.

I think it's sad, really--Mac games have had a history of being innovative an high quality (Halo?) but it's totally true: Steve dislikes games just about as much as he hates TV (I totally think the iMac should have a TV tuner or some way of getting a cable signal but that's just me, perhaps).

I think the gaming market has a lot of potential, but I think Apple's really focusing on getting as many people as possible hooked on iPods and iPhones (which will hopefully drive people to the Mac platform) right now. Games, other than kids games, are seemingly just gonna continue to be a lower priority...I mean, look at how woefully underpowered Apple's graphics cards tend to be--if they were serious about gaming, they would either deliver higher power cards or let iMac users upgrade their video cards...

anyway, good thread. happy thanksgiving.

and if you're on Xbox Live, I'm zensen...

-mike

Am I the only one that actually read the article? There's little to no talk to developing games on the Mac in here. They're talking to ID about developing games for mobile platforms and Carmack's comments pertain to the iPhone and the iPods... Maybe we should all read the actual article before reporting it and/or starting a flame war about the Mac's ability as a gaming platform.

I think that what Steve Jobs has done for Apple over the last 10 years has been amazing, it's one of the most inspiring stories in the history of business but I honestly think that at this point in time that Apple would be better off with out him.

Yeah, I know that Apple is a lot better ran then that shitty company from Redmond, but thats not saying much seeing that Microsoft is run by a retarded spunk monkey. I think Apple has so much upside but that Steve Job's ego (the same ego that helped save the company) is getting in the way. You look at some of the narcissistic business decisions that they have made over the last couple of years, the charging of 100 dollars for the color black or the iphone or shitty developer support and how they have chronic issues with there business partners, and you see Job's ego hurting the company in the long run.

I know that Steve was not the CEO in 84 but when I look at the iphone i can't help but think of the flaws in how the original Mac (high price, locked down) it's like he has a selective memory. And if you have guys like Carmack being pushed to the side thats a big fucking deal, I think that id's new engine could change gaming on the Mac forever. Apple needs better partners for the Mac to grow and Jobs does not play well with others.

Ok everyone talking about Blizzard needs to back off. Carmack is talking about introducing new game engine technology on the Mac with bleeding edge requirements.

WoW has never been a game that taxes systems. Even when it was first released it could run on 2 year old computers just fine. But until mid 2006 when BLIZZARD WORKED WITH APPLE TO UPDATE OpenGL it ran like crap. Trust me I had a brand new iMac with an upgraded video card and the frame rates were horrible compared to my old PC.

See what I'm getting at. Blizzard had to work with apple to get things to work correctly... just like Carmack is trying to do ... with one exception.. his game engine is going push systems hard.

Also this isn't some poor ass Aspyr ported game coming over to the mac, the engine will run natively which opens mac platform to the other games developed with the engine. So rejoice that a developer is pushing SteveO to revaluate things so his consumers can join the 95% of the world at some time.

No offense, but is Carmack still relevant in today's gaming market?!

No offense, but is Carmack still relevant in today's gaming market?!

@34 Rick...

Valve wanted Apple to allow them to install an ever-present, snooping Steam console on Mac OS X, and Apple said "no way."

Personally, I applaud them for this. Steam is utter crap, despite the Valve games being good.

I don't see why gaming on Mac is such an issue. There are games for Mac (As mentioned, Blizzard has no problems making dual discs for every game) but these days it's just better and easier to play games on a dedicated console. If I want to play any of the Valve games, I'll play Orange Box on my XBox 360.

And please-- Show me this booming PC gaming industry. More games sell for consoles than PC. Walk into any Best Buy and you'll see the shrinking PC games section being overtaken by the growing console games section... Unless you're really into PopCap games and variations of "______ Tycoon" and Sudoku, PC games don't have any more than the consoles-- In fact, they have less to offer.

I like the Mac the way it is. Unfettered by junk hardware and the need to upgrade my video card every six months. That's why I switched. If I want to muck with gaming rig B.S., I'll build a Windows box and annoy myself again.

Now, if Apple made a game console, I'd take a look.

By the way-- Carmack is overrated. What has he done for the gaming industry LATELY? Even at the height of his success, he was no Lord British or even Roberta Williams. He made an FPS game, and then followed it up with other brown, derivative, linear FPS games. He's hardly anyone I'd listen to on the state of Mac gaming, and he's not exactly on top of the gaming industry these days.

Hey, his games were fun. They were also lowbrow entertainment requiring no actual wits or problem-solving skills. Just point-and-shoot-and-run, and I'd rather see that stuff on the XBox 360 or PS3. A Mac's kind of a waste for something like "Quake VIII: More Brown Places"