Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Software, Freeware, Internet Tools, Software Update, Bad Apple, Apple
Sneaky Safari Updater opinion roundup
The news that Apple has stealthily included Safari in its Software Updater bounced all over the Mac blogosphere today, and earned cheers and jeers (well, mostly jeers). Here's a quick roundup.- The most attention probably comes from John Lilly, CEO of Mozilla, who unequivocally calls the decision "wrong," and says that doing something other than "updating" with an "updater" betrays the public trust.
- Darby Lines at The Angry Drunk says that the whole matter is just plain "whining" and that Apple is hardly forcing the software on anyone, especially considering that there's a checkbox right next to the name of it. And it's not like, as many people have said, installing Safari on a PC is actually a bad move.
- The Inquirer actually makes a worthwhile joke: "Some iTunes users report that the box to sign up for Safari appears pre-ticked." At least we think that's a joke -- you'd only say Apple was "targeting" and "hijacking" Windows users if you were joking, right?
- Microsoft Watch calls the program a "rogue updater," while Paul Mison fisks them pretty completely and shows that even if Apple did somehow hurt the computers by installing a reasonable, standards-compliant browser, Microsoft has done much, much worse.
The only real result is that users, whether PC or Mac, are reminded once again to pay attention to what they're clicking on. It's unexpected that Apple would be the company to remind us of that, but it's as true as ever.
![TUAW [Cafepress]](http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tuaw.com/media/tuaw-cafepress-promo.png)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Stephen.4 said 10:17AM on 3-22-2008
Here's another picture for you guys to add to your "collection" haha.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z95/stephenheaps/SoftwareUpdate.jpg
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Ian said 10:24AM on 3-22-2008
This is still nothing compared to how Microsoft pushes Live Search in IE in practically every installer they create.
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eizzumdm said 10:25AM on 3-22-2008
I don't see why Apple is getting singled out over this.
Windows Update suggested that I install Silverlight 1.0 on every Vista machine that I updated last week, and those boxes did not even have the beta version of the browser plug-in. Granted, Silverlight was listed under "optional updates" and wasn't pre-ticked.
Then when I visited Microsoft's site to download Vista SP1, they tried to get be to install Silverlight there as well.
And don't even get me started on all of the installers/updaters that suggest I install Google Toolbar (etc.) along with an often unrelated product, and I have to be careful to read every panel of the installer wizard, unchecking any sneaky installation options.
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Chris said 10:53AM on 3-22-2008
If i remember correctly, doesn't Windows Updates install internet explorer 7? Of course, you can stop it quite easily, but It seems like a similar situation. In my opinion, Apple was correct to make the option available, but certainly should not have made installation the default option.
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eugene said 10:53AM on 3-22-2008
So the lesson here: it's okay to try and sneak in software, as long as it competes with MS, because MS is bad and therefore abusing the public trust is okay because as long as you're competing against MS then you're actually helping the public by calling an installed an "updater" because the public is too stupid to know what's good for them. Is that the message we're supposed to get?
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ronl12 said 11:28AM on 3-22-2008
About once a month when I launch IE on my work system, I get a FULL PAGE AD screaming for me to install IE7 to replace IE6 which I much prefer. Remember that Microsoft won the browser wars by bundling IE and making it harder to install third party browsers. Nope, I think this is quite reasonable of Apple.
Jon said 10:57AM on 3-22-2008
I installed MSN Messenger for my grandfather a few weeks back. If I recall correctly, there are two whole installer screens dedicated to unrelated third party software, all of which are pre-ticked.
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jonas said 10:58AM on 3-22-2008
We all know that if microsoft had included a totally different piece of software via the Office update system, TUAW would've gone on a ten-post-rant going to extremes to find bad angles.
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RobK said 11:00AM on 3-22-2008
If MS did the same thing, there would be an uproar by Apple users on TUAW.
e.g. If the MS updater for MS Office for the Mac tried to install completely new unrelated software on your Mac, Apple users would NOT be happy.
The fact that others have done the same thing does not make it right.
What Apple is doing is plain wrong and should be condemned by ALL.
Apple is quickly becoming the new MS! Pity..
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sean O'Kelley said 5:07AM on 3-23-2008
hey hey hey, Apple users could give a crap about the welfare of PC users. It is odd though, that the PC community seems to have their fingers on Steve Jobs' pulse. PC users tend to expect almost nothing from Microsoft, but everything from Apple. Mac users tend to expect long hearty jokes from Microsoft, and fun new cool stuff from Apple. There's a slight difference in perspective y'see. Worry about your own company for a while k? We'll hear back from you in another 7 years, LOL!
Blaktornado said 11:01AM on 3-22-2008
Ok, this was a bad move. While I agree that people shouldn't use Internet Explorer (from a web designer's point of view), I think this makes Apple as bad as Microsoft.
Hopefully it won't happen again.
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tevetorbes said 11:03AM on 3-22-2008
OK, this is friggin ridiculous. I realize that this is an Apple blog and we're all fanboys here, but let's call a spade a spade.
Sure, I can untick the box and not download the software. BUT I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO.
If I didn't request the software, I should have to unrequest it. I shouldn't have to opt-out of an UPDATE for software that I don't actually have to UPDATE.
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Jack Beckman said 11:10AM on 3-22-2008
Ok, even if you don't remember to skip the update or uncheck the box, you can always uninstall it. And it's not like Safari runs in the background on startup. Sheesh. Darby Lines has it right.
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Ed said 11:55AM on 3-22-2008
Agreed. I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. Who cares if it gets installed, it's 22 megabytes. It doesn't change itself to your default browser unless you tell it to, and in the end nothing really changes.
Ben said 11:32AM on 3-22-2008
On some PCs, I'm finding Safari faster to open than Firefox.
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Howie Isaacks said 11:38AM on 3-22-2008
Why are people bitching about this? If they don't want Safari then, don't download it! The only reason why this makes some people mad is because those people are mindless sloths who don't pay attention to what their computers are doing. Whether is Windows or Mac, YOU are in control of your own computer.
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Todd Sieling said 11:58AM on 3-22-2008
Yes, Windows users are not used to the rough and tumble world of software doing the unexpected. Lily's distress must surely be about his inherent concern for those who play in that pristine garden that is Windows.
He's not speaking as CEO for a rival product, but as a citizen of the world. Apple has stolen an innocent, carefree time away from Windows users, forever. Let's all wear black armbands and stand with John, and never forget Update Day.
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jdn said 12:00PM on 3-22-2008
I'm neither supporting nor condemning this, but I thought I should mention that I have had to un-check, or even worse, do a custom install in some cases, to avoid installing the latest yahoo toolbar, google toolbar or desktop, or other shenanigans in installers for, oh... Sun's Java... QuickBooks... and many others. I think it is unfortunate that this type of bundling has become so prevalent in the industry.
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RealtorBen said 12:07PM on 3-22-2008
I think the whole industry is messed up.
A few examples....
I download acrobat reader, upon install, I have to ask it NOT TO isntall Google or Yahoo toolbar, otherwise, they will be installed. But, wait, aren't those both 3rd party unrelated pieces of software that have absolutely nothing to do or no bearing on Acrobat...furthermore, they aren't even adobe products!
Microsoft does it on a daily basis. Most of the time IT'S NOT EVEN THEIR SOFTWARE, it's developed by someone else.
I absolutely have no problem with companies asking me to install updates or new software from them when I currently have their products on my system.
If MS asks me to install Silverlight, that's fine. Whether I do it or not is up to me.
If MS asks me to install IE7, (or IE8 when it comes out), that's fine. Whether I do it or not is up to me
If Adobe asks me to install a new acrobat, that's fine. If I do it or not, it's up to me
If Apple asks me to install a new web browser, that's fine. Whether I do it or not, it's up to me.
The truth is YES, apple fans would get mad at MS for trying to install a new product. What if MS developed IE7 For mac and tried to push it with Office Update (which is essentially the same thing as Apple software update). Apple fans would be pissed. Not me (and I'm an apple fan), I would just ignore it, and move on with my life and not have to worry about it.
So, I can see why Windows users (or anti-apple fanatics) are in an uproar over this, for the same reason apple users would be.
But lets face it, EVERY F***ING COMPANY DOES IT, don't make Apple out to be a bad guy because they are following an industry standard.
The truth is, none of this would have mattered if the big boys at Mozilla hadn't raised a fuss. The truth is, nobody has more to lose on this planet by this particular update that Mozilla.
Even if apple had NO browser on the mac platform, and IE and Firefox were the prevalent browsers. Then Apple developed safari and pushed it out with their apple software update to their users...Mozilla would be pissed.
Why? Because apple is going to eat a huge chunk of the market share that they currently have, and that's the only reason any of this is any sort of a problem for anyone! It's Mozilla just whining about first getting beating by MS because of bundled, now Apple is suggesting to it's users that it try the fastest web browser of all time. They are not "forcing" the update. They aren't stopping iTunes or your iPod's from running until you make the update. It's simple a suggestion, just as Adobe does with Yahoo and Google software.
If we got to a point in this world where we can't even make a suggestion anymore, then we have some serious problems.
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albi said 1:55PM on 3-22-2008
i get a msn messenger when install the office 2008, which was a good surprise because i thought they stopped develop it a long while ago, (now i can get rid of the duck)
i don't understand why this whole thing become a problem now, i mean it's not the first time a company does something similar; hec apple's been promoting iTunes/quicktimes on the same manner and i don't see anyone complain about that.