Filed under: Airport
802.11n upgrade to Airport Express makes WDS a whole lot simpler
If I had to pick one feature of the Airport base station that makes me absolutely tear my hair out every time, that feature would be WDS. Getting a wireless network extended across multiple base stations with no wired interconnect is dark magic, and it seems like it never works the same way twice; it's always a mystery blend of MAC address input, switching between encryption modes, hard restarts, matching security settings and swearing. When I had to link up an Airport Extreme with two Airport Express units last week, I resigned myself to a long afternoon of trying to tame the user-hostile.
This time, though, it was different -- thanks to the power of N. 802.11n, now supported on both the Extreme and Express models, provides a remarkably easier WDS setup than earlier protocols. Rather than having to set the MAC addresses of the remote base stations and restart in sequence, on an all-n setup you just check the "Allow this network to be extended" on the master, and choose "Extend a wireless network" on the remotes. Easy as can be, and compared to the old way it's a big relief.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
netgem21 said 7:47PM on 4-06-2008
I had this really annoying issue when I set up the WDS but only 1 could operate at a time. Out of 4 Expresses and 1 Extreme, If one was on, for example, an Express, the other 3 and the Extreme would flash yellow and the utility would deny their existence! It was so weird!
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Bob Chaput said 4:52PM on 4-23-2008
I've set up a WDS with an Airport Extreme and an Airport Express. The WDS works fine, but my Air Disk has stopped working. If I return the AE to 'Create a Wireless Network' my Air Disk again becomes functional.
Anyone else have this problem? Know of a fix/workaround.
GB in HK said 8:01PM on 4-06-2008
The set up is indeed very easy now. Unfortunately, extended networks are still buggy. Try sending iTunes audio to remote speakers that are a network leap or two away. While you're able to select the desired location, the audio won't get there. Move the Mac running iTunes to a location where it's able to see the destination Airport Express directly and everything is fine. Time Machine backups are the same: they fail if your Mac has to connect to the Time Capsule across an extended WLAN. Move your Mac within immediate range of the Time Capsule (or base station with the USB drive, presumably) and everything's fine.
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Bender Bending Rodriguez said 8:01PM on 4-06-2008
Is this an 802.11n feature or just a feature that is present in the new AE? Sounds like the latter to me.
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ChillyWilly said 12:09PM on 4-07-2008
I've never had an issue setting up WDS on my Airport Extreme Base station and my Airport Express 802.11g. It has always given me the option setting for "Allow this network to be extended". Maybe there is better compatibility on the new Airport Express, but for my current situation, it works great.
I'm still going to pick up another Express here in the future.
dash16 said 8:07PM on 4-06-2008
Yeah, that whole "Allow this network to be extended" feature was introduced with the 802.11n Fast Ethernet Extreme last January. However, it is NOT WDS. Try setting up more than 2 base stations and you'll see what I mean. Its more of an undocumented repeater mode than it is WDS. WDS allows multiple base stations to create one big network, not just two.
Just use the Continue button at the bottom of the AirPort Utility instead of manually setting it up, and it will guide you through WDS and enter all the MAC addresses for you. You can do that with any new Express, old Express, and old Extreme. The new Extreme and Time Capsule don't like to be WDS remotes.
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joshjagdfeld said 9:53PM on 4-06-2008
Too bad that if you have an iPhone and you go "all N," you're leaving an important device in the WiFi dark!
Here's to iPhone 2.0!
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rdas7 said 12:51AM on 4-07-2008
I just got two AE units for my parents' house and set one up upstairs and the other in the living room for AirTunes. I was simply amazed at how easy it was. Fifteen minutes after buying the units, I had a WDS/AirTunes/Wireless Printing network set up for them, with zero cable clutter (don't get me started about the previous router that got replaced). Why would anyone ever use anything else?
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Mark Sieber said 10:39PM on 4-06-2008
"802.11n, now supported on both the Extreme and Express models"
I'm still not clear if this is only the newer Airport Express, or a software enhancement for extending an AEBS n.
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Grady said 11:19PM on 4-06-2008
Can't wait to upgrade my express! Took lots of work to get it set up with my new extreme when I recently got it.
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DaveGuy said 11:26PM on 4-06-2008
Dash16.... Yesterday, I got an Express, changed my Extreme to "allow this network to be extended", the configured the express to "extend an existing network". I then took my laptop from near the extreme, and roamed the house and the yard. The laptop was connected to my company's VPN wirelessly (WPA2 encrypted). It kept good signal the whole way, and seamlessly hopped APs -- my VPN never even noticed! There is no specific WDS between the extreme and the express. No physical cable at all. My only concern is that the two bases are far enough apart, that the express has slow connectivity. I figure I can solve that by putting another express halfway between them, though.
Also, the new expresses allow bridging TO a wired device (in my case a Dish DVR) now! Earlier models only used the RJ45 port for connecting a cable modem, or other uplink device. The documentation in the box even still indicates this.
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Robert McGovern said 4:46AM on 4-07-2008
The slow connectivity is there even when the devices are close together. I did a bunch of testing recently and basically with an Airport Extreme set to N only 5GHZ and an Airport Express set to extend the network if you go through the Express it is slow.
MB->Airport Express -> Airport Extreme->USB Disk 2MB/S
MB->Airport Extreme->USB Disk 7MB/S.
This is with the MB in the same location and the Extreme in the same location
Also with Wireless N, 5GHZ only and this time with Airport Express set to join Network. Again machines all in same location between tests, just removed cable and turned on Wifi
Computer -> Ethernet -> Airport Express -> Airport Extreme -> USB Disk 2MB/S
Computer (G Wifi) -> G Router -> Airport Extreme -> USB Disk 2.5MB/s
I also have figures of the Airport Express (Join - N, 5GHZ only) vs 85mbps HomePlug, where the HomePlug was marginally faster than the Express.
Its really odd, its like the device is capped at running at G like speeds when it is running in either Join or Extend mode which makes little sense to me.
There is also another oddity where even though the Extreme was set to 5GHZ only N, and the Express was Extending the Network, if I connected the computer with the G Wifi to the N network with Wifi it worked. It connected to the internet via the network and the Express showed it had 3 connections, my MB, the Extreme and the G Wifi device. I am really puzzled about this and how it happened and I checked the settings on the Extreme and they where set to N 5GHZ. When I have time I want to test this again to see if I am going mad.
Bryan said 7:17AM on 4-07-2008
(this link is directed at Robert McGovern, but I don't see a reply button under his name)
You're not crazy.
From Wikipedia:
"WDS may also be referred to as repeater mode because it appears to bridge and accept wireless clients at the same time (unlike traditional bridging). It should be noted, however, that throughput in this method is inversely proportional to two raised to the power of the number of "hops",[2] as all traffic uses the same channel. For example, client traffic going through one relay station before it reaches the main access point will see at most half the maximum throughput that a directly connected AP would experience and a client two hops from the directly connected AP will see at most one quarter of the maximum throughput seen at the directly connected AP."
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Distribution_System
bkim said 7:11PM on 4-07-2008
"Also, the new expresses allow bridging TO a wired device (in my case a Dish DVR) now! Earlier models only used the RJ45 port for connecting a cable modem, or other uplink device. The documentation in the box even still indicates this."
This is not true. I have the older Express (g) and it functions as a wireless bridge (with my AP Extreme Fast Ethernet). I know it works this way if you configure it as a WDS client. I'm not sure if it functions this way in any other configuration. I have since swapped it out for a new Express (n) in the exact same configuration.
Unfortunately, I can not claim that setting up the new AP Express (n) was painless. I had to reset it numerous times. It has also yet to allow me to perform a full factory reset. I'm hoping that a future firmware update will fix this.
Just_a_guy said 11:49PM on 4-06-2008
here's the damn problem. by doing this they eliminated the auto WDS option of earlier models which worked like this: you just told the client that you wanted to do WDS, it found the base station, and then auto found both and created the WDS. Now you have to do a few more steps and it doesn't work for 802.11 G!
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Chris Coleman said 1:41AM on 4-07-2008
Hey Xbox users!
I just got an AirPort Express and I have to ditch it. I tried everything, and it won't work with my Xbox 360. I bought an Extreme instead, and it's hooked up with ethernet. Not sure if the wireless would be any less painful with that, but at any rate, I'm going to sell my 360 wireless adapter to make up the cost of getting the Extreme.
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mingistech said 10:41AM on 4-07-2008
My xbox360 worked with my Airport Express wireless right outta the box. Not sure what issues you ran into.... odd.
Scott! said 6:11AM on 4-07-2008
This is an effect of the updated Airport Utility software, not the 'N' base stations specifically -- I recently added another 'G' Express to my network using WDS, had all sorts of difficulty (the unit eventually stopped responding), and decided to leave it alone until the next day. The new Airport Utility was released the next morning, and the easy setup feature you describe worked perfectly to add my 'G' Express in one easy step. Definitely software-based, and works w/older hardware.
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Robert Nienburg said 6:33PM on 4-07-2008
Exactly what I was gonna say.
Robert McGovern said 12:44PM on 4-07-2008
I don't seem to be able to reply to Bryan.
The odd thing is I didn't realise (or think) that Using Extend or Join was setting things up as if it was an WDS network.
Fair enough if it uses WDS for behind the scences of Extending the network but surely with Join the throughput should be higher than it is.
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