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Cornerstone passes Versions on the way to yesterday's finish line

Cornerstone made a dashing premier as a full release recently, outpacing the much-anticipated Versions in its development cycle and leaving many of us wondering: why couldn't we have had such polished Subversion clients back when Subversion really mattered? With friendlier and more flexible version control systems like Mercurial and (my recent favorite) Git taking center stage, it just seems odd that two applications devoted to last year's RCS are vying for the spotlight.

After a 10 minute tryout, I have to say that Versions, though still in beta, was more intuitive in general. I really, really like the timeline feature in Cornerstone, though, which allows you to Command-click any two points on the timeline and see a diff with the built-in viewer. For basic Subversion-related tasks (and probably more advanced tasks that I didn't delve into yet), both clients are far ahead of what currently exists, both in usability and aesthetics.

For those who still have a strong interest in Subversion, and who haven't already sworn allegiance to Versions at some point in the year (plus) we've been waiting for it, Cornerstone just crowded the playing field. You can read more on Cornerstone at the Zennaware website.

Addendum: As noted in the comments, my impression that Subversion is being relegated to obscurity (and the bias which that impression created in this article) is entirely without basis. I concede and would like to say that, given the stats, it's great to see some clients with real polish coming out.



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Cornerstone made a dashing premier as a full release recently, outpacing the much-anticipated Versions in its development cycle and leaving...
 

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Matt Johnson

I love Cornerstone, it has made my development a lot more pleasant.

July 30 2008 at 1:18 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Victoria

Full disclosure: I work for CollabNet, the company that started the Subversion open source project back in the year 2000 as a replacement for CVS. I say this only to explain the devotion we have to stats on Subversion usage throughout the world. We track the use of Subversion on public Apache servers and we post the results here: http://www.collab.net/community/subversion/articles/Subversion%20Growth.html

The growth of Subversion adoption looks very much like an exponential J-curve, with about 300,000 public servers running Subversion to date. Nearly 60,000 of those servers have been added in just the last 4 months (between March - June 2008)! This doesn't count all of the enterprises running it behind the firewall, since we can't query those servers. We also work with many large enterprises (Global 1000) who are switching to Subversion from other more proprietary systems they have used in the past.

Overall, we estimate that there are between 3-4 million individual users on Subversion worldwide. So, is Subversion "yesterday's RCS"? I would argue a resounding "no".

July 03 2008 at 2:49 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
2 replies to Victoria's comment
Brett Terpstra

I'm often willing to admit I'm wrong, but I feel especially willing this time around. Thanks, Victoria and to everyone for the valid (and civil) arguments.

July 03 2008 at 3:18 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Victoria

Thanks, Brett. Not to continue kicking the horse, but I did think of one more thing that might be interesting to some (and something we are quite proud of). Forrester, the research firm, did a comparison of SCM (software configuration management) systems in use throughout enterprises. Subversion was far and away the leader for what they call "Standalone SCM". It beat out IBM, Borland, Perforce, and others!

Carey Schwaber, the Forrester analyst, wrote, "Subversion was recognized as the sole leader in the Standalone Software Configuration Management (SCM) category and a strong performer in the Software Configuration and Change Management (SCCM) category. The findings were based on Subversion’s strong performance on the following criteria: ability to support geographic distribution, ease of administration, security, price and scalability...Subversion’s ability to scale to meet enterprise needs is well established... "

Check out the full report and vendor comparison here: http://www.collab.net/forrester_wave_report/index.html

OK... I'm stepping off my soapbox now. :)

July 03 2008 at 3:43 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Ian Beck

Although appealing at the outset, Cornerstone's lack of an easy way to accomplish some of the simplest tasks and its non-standard use of Apple UI elements makes it a no-go for me. See http://beckism.com/2008/06/cornerstone/ if you're interested in specifics.

As far as the price, I'm confused why people think this should be free. Consider: versioning is incredibly important for anyone writing code. However, not everyone writing code is comfortable with or wants to learn the command-line interface which is virtually the only way to access svn on a Mac. Cornerstone and Versions both provide a much easier way to access versioning, have an extremely slight learning curve as long as you understand the basics of version tracking, and allow individuals to get a simple versioning system set up with a minimum of fuss and effort. That's huge. Damned right I'll pay for that.

July 03 2008 at 10:27 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
1 reply to Ian Beck's comment
AronT

If you are a Java programmer and use Eclipse on a mac, then you don't have a huge need for a gui client. When you do there is always svnX:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/development_tools/svnx.html

And considering that subversion now comes standard with Leopard I don't see it going away anytime soon.

July 03 2008 at 3:35 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Jash Sayani

Is it a freeware ?

July 03 2008 at 5:45 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Nick

The fundamental design of Git makes it certain that it will not displace anything in the corporate world. They will continue to use Subversion or Perforce until something better comes along that /isn't/ distributed and /isn't/ just rabid fanboys foaming at the mouth about it. See also "Ruby".

July 03 2008 at 3:49 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Ryan Flynn

Can I pick the brain of all TUAW readers for a second?

I love the look and idea of both Versions and Cornerstone but here's the rub - I want the same kind of thing but for documents, not code. Basically I want something like Sharepoint but running locally on my Mac, with a front end like Versions or Cornerstone.

I tried Cornerstone for this purpose (added a load of Pages documents I was working on) and the issue is that it views the Pages document as a folder, rather than a single file. This means that when I make a change to the file Cornerstone does not understand how the file has been changed and refuses to check it back in.

Any ideas for a potential solution? Thanks!

July 03 2008 at 3:12 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Adrian vG

Just to continue the debate, Subversion is and will matter for at least two more years in the bigger corporations at least.

July 03 2008 at 1:30 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Steve

Cornerstone looks promising, but is buggy as hell (crashes constantly) and is bizarrely, extraordinarily slow in updating repositories (the same update takes seconds in SmartSVN or Versions). Pass.

July 02 2008 at 10:22 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Jeff

I wouldn't call Subversion last year's RCS. Its just started to gain traction in corporate America the last year or so. Sure, it will eventually be pushed aside by GIT probably. But it took Subversion about 3 or 4 years to get people to move off of CVS.

July 02 2008 at 9:33 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
2 replies to Jeff's comment
maybesew

I really have to disagree with this articles bias against SVN. And even having read Brett's comments here, the reality is that for vast target audience for source control moves VERY slow and methodically. As people have said, some are still on RCS/CVS let alone moving to subversion.

Individual authors might be able to pick up and move to a new solution, but software companies, and even open source projects with a small amount of people, but spread out across the globe would not change their source control unless there are significant, and i really stress significant reasons for it.

That said, I don't know that GIT will ever be a mass market source control system. Having read up on it, and watched the video google talks about it, and who is was developed for and the benefits of it, I think that many projects and companies will not switch from subversion to GIT. For projects like the linux kernel, it makes sense. For companies with hundreds of various repositories and projects, I don't know that it makes sense. And that goes for now, and probably 5 and also ten years from now.

My comments are not regarding cornerstone or versions, just the underlying source control technologies.

July 03 2008 at 10:05 AM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Brett Terpstra

@maybesew

I fit into the category of people who can switch systems with very little effort/concern. In the realm in which I operate, I'm seeing Git gaining popularity. I don't, however, have experience on the large-scale, corporate side of version control.

I'm unsure whether either of these apps are designed to meet the needs of such environments. My impression of the applications (especially Versions) is that they are designed to help introduce Subversion and ease its use. It's that audience for whom I see Subversion aging. My impression could be entirely wrong. As stated in the article, I only gave it a surface level run-through and my conclusions are based on my own realm of experience.

The last paragraph of the article -- the one that says "For those who still have a strong interest in Subversion" -- is not intended to be read with any sarcasm or snarkiness. It's stated with the understanding that there are many, by choice or necessity, who truly do have a strong interest in Subversion. Having learned (as I often do) quite a bit in the comments, I would also retract the bias in the initial bias of the article.

July 03 2008 at 12:28 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
Mr.Clicky

Well I've just read the post and all the comments and I still have no idea what these apps do or what you're talking about

July 02 2008 at 9:32 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
1 reply to Mr.Clicky's comment
Ryan

Don't feel bad.
When people talk about video/audio/photo/artsy production stuff I have very little grasp what *they* do. ;-)

But if you would like to know, check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_control

July 02 2008 at 9:46 PM Report abuse rate up rate down Reply
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