Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Desktops, Hardware, Apple, Macbook Pro, Mac Pro
Tom's Hardware says Apple and PC prices are equivalent
I love Tom's Hardware -- they're traditionally a PC site (and being a gamer, I've built and run my share of PCs), but like most PC guys, they aren't afraid to lay out the specs and draw direct conclusions from there. And that's exactly what they've done with a very Mac misconception: that Apple computers traditionally cost more than the average PC.To the average user, that seems true -- if you go to, say, a Best Buy or a Circuit City, and look at the Macs they're selling versus the seemingly equivalent PCs they're selling, then yes, you're seeing higher pricetags on the Apple stuff. But when Tom's lays out what you get out of each computer, the prices are generally the same. In fact, they even build an equivalent Mac Pro, and there's only a $5.67 difference.
Of course, that doesn't stop people from trying to prove otherwise (Apple, you'll note, is not a client of NPD, and they don't actually share which computers they're talking about in the study). And of course, as Tom's Hardware commenters will tell you, there's really no argument for gamers yet, as amazing hardware is nothing when it doesn't run your software the way it should. But it's good to see TH taking a serious, relatively unbiased look at the price differences, and Apple getting a little more love from the traditionally PC crowd.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
south said 7:27PM on 8-07-2008
this is what i've been saying to my PC-using friends since the early 90s (to no effect). there are many different PC makers of varying quality, and it's like saying that BMWs cost more than "other cars".
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evangellydonut said 7:45PM on 8-07-2008
I did a spec compare this morning, and what I came up with is - without student discount from apple, and employer discount from dell, MacBook Pro is $1999, Dell XPS M1530 is $1369.
Pluses for Apple: Dual-link DVI, optical audio out, 1394b, Gigabit ethernet, 4WHr higher capacity battery, slightly more updated bluetooth, better form-factor
Pluses for Dell: HDMI (useful for 1090p TV outputs, can be converted to DVI, but not dual-link), 1GB more RAM, 120GB more HD, 1 more USB port, 2MP camera, upgradability to blu-ray
Once you factor in discounts, Apple comes out to $1799, Dell comes out to $1150. So, are those feature differences worth 56% price premium to you? some may think so. I'm not that someone.
disclosure - i've previously worked for Apple as Campus Rep, and currently in the interview process with them. And I've used a Mac for at least 5 more years than a PC, so if anything, I'm biased to a Mac.
south said 7:52PM on 8-07-2008
I'd be willing to pay a 100% premium to own a Mac instead of a Dell.
evangellydonut said 7:59PM on 8-07-2008
As an EE who has friends working on Apple hardware design team (1 on MacBook Air, 1 on Mac Pro), I can tell you as a matter-of-fact that Apple's hardware engineering ain't all that. Though I can't say either way if Dell's is any better or worse.
Sam said 8:27PM on 8-07-2008
It can easily depend on the exact specs, the day of the week, the mood of the Dell site's price-o-matic, etc. When Apple hardware is first released, it's usually a little cheaper than the equivalent Windows PC. But then the Windows machines' prices decrease linearly while the Macs step down every 6-8 months or so, and it's not long before the Mac is more expensive.
When I bought this MacBook Pro with the high-density 17" screen, it was cheaper than the equivalent Dell. Once I decided to buy refurbished from Apple, it was much cheaper. I'm sure now, though, the Dell is probably cheaper.
Another thing is that Apple sells machines that are much, much less configurable. You can spec a Dell up to the same specs as a MacBook, but you can't spec a MacBook down to the same specs as a Dell can go. Thus Dell gives you a full range of options while Apple gives you a couple of choices. If Apple's selection fits your needs, great. Otherwise you're forced into an imperfect solution in which you pay for things you don't need, or don't get things you want. That's just the price of doing business with Apple.
I think it's worth it, but I don't mind that others have different opinions.
War Machine said 2:12AM on 8-08-2008
It's all about quality, Apple only sells top of the line hardware, while other vendors, like Dell, sell you sub-par computers that will become obsolete in less than a year. Dell does sell good hardware as well, but it's never the hardware that they tout to be cheaper than Apple's.
Aside from RAM, Dell sells at a very close price as Apple.
Michael said 4:32PM on 8-08-2008
Apple and other Intel laptop vendors use very similar parts: ICH8M and PM965/GM965. Apple notebooks use standard DDR2 SODIMMs (except for the Air, which has onboard RAM) and standard 2.5" or 1.8" hard drives. Apple laptops use standard Intel mobile CPUs (except the Air, which has a smaller non-socketed CPU). They use regular Broadcom ethernet chipsets and Realtek audio chipsets.
As far as price goes, comparing the price of two systems with equivalent parts doesn't make a lot of sense unless you specifically require those parts. Most consumers don't buy a computer based only on these factors. If you just want a "lightweight laptop", "something cheap that will surf the web", or "something with a long-lasting battery", the parts inside don't matter as much.
Sean Flanagan said 7:44PM on 8-07-2008
The comments on that article are just priceless. Exactly the same type of thing the author said Tom's hardware is not all about. Mac users get a bad rap for being "elitist" and "fanboys", but I think the community of Apple haters is far worse.
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Level 5 said 8:49AM on 8-08-2008
It absolutely goes both ways. When I asked around about how Vista runs on an MBP because I need it for work, I was torn apart on various forums. "Why install an inferior OS?" and "I can't believe you use Windoze/blowz/etc."
One person out of 11 replies even answered my question. One. And to his credit, he was nice; also the only one.
I don't know why Apple fanboys HATE Windows. And I mean HATE. I triple boot Vista/Ubuntu/OSX86 on my desktop PC. I'm very happy with the versatility this gives me without having to trudge through virtualization, and I wanted to know how this would pan out on a laptop. That was all. I didn't ask for opinions. I didn't try to start a "which OS is better" debate.
Conversely, PC guys laugh at OSX's lack of gaming support, or the lack of no right mouse button on laptops, the price (despite the Tom's article); and ask equally ridiculous questions and make the same type of cracks that the Apple fanboys do.
For what it's worth though guys, these ultra pompous (and many times inaccurate) I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC commercials are only making it worse, and making these Apple fanboys more arrogant.
Juan Snyman said 7:45PM on 8-07-2008
You mean "traditional PC crowd" not "traditionally PC crowd". :)
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dagaz said 7:53PM on 8-07-2008
Their take on Apple's upgrade prices (RAM, drives, etc.) is well put:
"We put the price myth about its systems to rest, but Apple needs to take a long hard look at its upgrade options for customers — upgrades that are priced outside the realm of common sense."
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TheAir said 7:56PM on 8-07-2008
I think the biggest mistake in this article is the fact that the author compares Macs to Dell and Voodoo PCs. Both are overpriced PCs that charge extra for style (in other words, they're Macs without OS X). I have an HP notebook, 4GB of RAM, 2.1GHz processor, 250GB HDD. $799. A MacBook with the same configuration costs $1,549. The price is nearly doubled with a difference of $744!
That's from a numbers standpoint. Clearly, a Mac costs more, as long as you are not buying a "premium PC." The thing is, there is no reason why Dell/Voodoo charge more other than prettier hardware. (Note to back up this claim: HP owns Voodoo; My HP notebook is more powerful (and much cheaper) than the Voodoo Envy.) Apple charges a similar premium to Voodoo and Dell, but Apple offers a superior build quality and better software. (iLife > Bloatware; OS X Leopard > Vista)
In case anyone was wondering, yes, I do use both OS X and Vista on a daily basis, so I have a well-developed opinion of both.
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evangellydonut said 8:14PM on 8-07-2008
Apples UI team wins against Windows hands down. There's nothing that comes close to iPhoto on the PC side for example.
Vista is a half-baked OS, not too different from OS X.0. SP1 is shaping up to be something of a comparable development cycle and development maturity improvement to OS X.1. So in that sense, OS X is 4 cycles ahead and Vista is just trying to copy.
With that said, there are also things to be said about lack of competition at times that forces Apple to add necessary features to their software. Example being DVD-Player didn't properly upscale 'til 10.5, even though it's been part of PowerDVD for a long time. Even today, DVD-Player drains a lot of CPU-cycle to do a simple task that should cost 1/2 as much processor utilization when in Windows.
All that being said, Apple is still an exciting company that impacts technology orders of magnitude more often than Dell or Microsoft. I consider myself an Apple fanboy, just a realist fanboy instead of a blind, cult-like fanboy.
Josh said 7:58PM on 8-07-2008
This has been the case for many years. All you need to do is match specs....
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JohnPQ said 8:17PM on 8-07-2008
Dell and HP beat Apple every day of the week. They also offer attractive systems at lower price points. Apple is only interested in selling "high end" systems. That's why they can't even update the Mac mini. In all honestly, you’re just paying for the Apple design, name, and OS X. Which is a better OS, but that doesn't mean you can't offer value or entry-level systems to your customers. O well, I don't think computers are a priority with Apple anymore anyways. They are more interested in pushing the iPhone…
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Marek said 8:33PM on 8-07-2008
I bought an alu iMac 24" last november. Before that I tried to configure a PC from the same parts - the difference was about $100, but without the case and psu...
The same with the Mac Pro.
I'd say only the notebooks are a little bit more expensive, compared to pc notebooks, but i still prefere the apple.
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Chris said 9:00PM on 8-07-2008
This issue keeps coming up again and again. The problem is that the average consumer pays for it in the long run when purchasing the cheaper PCs. While I don't make any claim as to which has better hardware, I do see a difference from an end-user standpoint. My office purchases lots of these "better buys" on a yearly basis. The hardware becomes obsolete, lethargic and relatively unusable in a short time. In contrast, the few macs in the office hang around for a long time barring being dropped from a height, a serious power surge or being dropped in water while plugged in. The bottom line is that the specs from the Dell Store or HP do not seem to add up when it comes to head-to-head performance with macs. The only PCs that seem to survive/compete are the ones that cost the same as the macs.
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Phet said 7:11AM on 8-08-2008
Same here! I can say personaly that the high end custom build pc i had crashed more then ten times a day! And with the same software installed, my Mac pro crashes maybe once or twice in a year! No contest there!
I find most mac only soft are so well build and user friendly. The only drawback for me is the Mac gaming industrie.
sonicwind said 9:00PM on 8-07-2008
Oops, TH compared a 15" Macbook Pro with a 17" XPS. A 17" Macbook Pro costs $800 more.
They should also take into consideration upgrades and warranty. Apple's fees for memory, harddrive, warranty etc. upgrades are way over Dells.
And while I think the build quality of Macs are very good, and the Macbooks are thinner and lighter than comparable notebooks, they don't seem to be much better in terms of defects than any other good manufacturer.
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Ernie Oporto said 9:48PM on 8-07-2008
And don't forget that the Mac often comes with bundled software that would cost you quite a lot more on the PC. Just bought myself a Mac Mini and that was enough to start with.
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