Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Software, Odds and ends, Blogging, Developer
Microsoft developer talks about Office 2008 update issues
Erik Schwiebert is one of the lead developers on the Mac Business Unit team under the Microsoft banner. I find their position constantly interesting -- even in these enlightened days of Safari for Windows, many dyed-in-the-wool Mac users still consider Microsoft the enemy, and yet the Mac BU has always been like a kind of diplomatic envoy. We have to use things like Office and Entourage, so we cautiously let them across the border, regarding them like strange visitors from the other side of the wall.But maybe that's just all in my mind. Recently, the Mac BU released an update for Office 2008, and lots of users, apparently, have suffered from error problems while trying to install it. So many, in fact, that Schwiebert has responded to the problems on his blog, saying that the problems are most likely because users have deleted or otherwise messed with files inside the installation, causing the installer to abort. And that strange Mac BU/Mac users fragile truce comes into play here as well -- he specifically calls out Xslimmer and Monolingual, two programs that delete often-unnecessary files in OS X, for causing the issues.
There's a workaround floating around, but Schwiebert warns it leaves the application suite in a possibly unstable and unsupportable state. Unfortunately, Schwiebert doesn't really offer any solutions (other, we guess, than to reinstall the software so that it's back to the full install, and then apply the update). And the alliance between the Mac BU and their users remains fragile -- we've got to work together, but it seems that many are unhappy about it.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Bitter much? said 8:20AM on 8-21-2008
I do not get how they can say it's compatible with the PC version but then claim there are known issues - with no plans to update as they don't know how - with compatibility. Makes no sense that I cannot work on a doc/excel/ppt in the dreaded program and give it to a PC user for editing only to have the formatting screwed up. Beyond frustrating! If only everyone would use Apple ... kidding.
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Jonathan Wise said 10:48AM on 8-21-2008
That's not the MacBU's fault. That has more to do with the horrific mess Windows Office file formats are -- especially the new XML ones.
Office Mac has consistently been an excellent piece of software, and a good citizen on my Mac. I have no trouble using it, and the few quirks that come up in interchanging files, I'm happy to blame on the Windows version.
You (meaning people in general) should read some of the MacBU folks' blogs. Most of them are really passionate about the Mac platform and about developing the best software they can for it...
Bitter much? said 7:33PM on 8-21-2008
I'm really happy it has worked so well for you but when they (MS) tells me that it's an Apple problem and I can go to their (MS) user sites and see it's a known issue with no fix, then it's a serious flaw of the software. I'm sure they (MS BU) are very passionate about their work but when I pay for something, ESPECIALLY in this economy where extra money is getting more and more scarce, I expect it to work OR have the person that put the item (in this case, software) out to assist me getting it to work by finding fixes to the known/identified bugs.
frogbat said 8:25AM on 8-21-2008
i don't know he ins and outs of the situation - just what's reported above. If these problems are really due to other applications run by the user that interfere with the installed office files then MS mac BU can't be at fault here. If it's not the case and it hasn't been proven to be the cause and the problems persist or exist in case where users haven't used such applications then yeah... issues might arise.
oh and i'm in the camp that really appreciates the hard work the MS BU put into their products - must be hard taking archaic and monolithic pc apps and macifying them. Could they produce better? sure so can apple, adobe et al. Also any ms sw on the mac seems better than that on the pc.. might be the environment its run in tho.
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stevetim said 9:16AM on 8-21-2008
On current release the powerpoint center and right flush tabs do not work. Just throws the text around anywhere it wants to. Microsoft was able to duplicate problem, but no solution yet. So they have more problems than just install.
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Don O'Shea said 8:50AM on 8-21-2008
I bought MS Office 2008, installed it, and worked with it for about two weeks. The change to docx format, the space wasting menu band, and the ramp up factor caused me to uninstall the beast and retreat to a serviceable 2004 version.
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RobK said 8:59AM on 8-21-2008
I hate to say it but the best way to run MS Office on the Mac is using the Windows version of Office under Visualization (ie. VMware Fusion, Parallels or the FREE Virtualbox).
Personally I like the older MS Office 2003. I still can't get used to the new interface in MS Office 2007.
And by the way you can add .docx compatibility for FREE to MS Office 2003. Install the Free MS Office 2003 Compatibility Pack. I see no reason to upgrade to MS Office 2007.
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Craig said 9:03AM on 8-21-2008
I have run Word, Excel and Powerpoint 2008 through Xslimmer and after reading this article thought that I'd probably have to spend an hour or two uninstalling and then reinstalling Office and then configuring it 'how I like it'.
However I thought I'd just have a go at updating it to 1.1.2 and I didn't have any of the issues in the blog post. My install may now be 'unstable', but to be quite honest I found it rather 'unstable' before I slimmed it down!
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Jehan said 9:05AM on 8-21-2008
I've had problems with recent updates on my MBP. I could see deleting "unnecessary" files as a reason for problems with the updates, but I'm very seriously doubting that's the issue for 2 reasons.
1. I had the problems on my MBP. Coincidentally, I wiped it shortly after the update came out. I reinstalled Office, and still have the same problem.
2. My GF's *brand new* MBP is having the same damn problem. And I know she hasn't "delet[ed] any unnecessary files." I'm displeases, Microsoft. Displeased indeed.
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Howie Isaacks said 9:14AM on 8-21-2008
This is typical Microsoft to blame the problems on the users. I have personally had this issue updating Office 2008 on my own MacBook Pro as well as Macs that are fresh out of the box with a brand new, clean install of Office. This guy is full of shit. Instead of blaming Mac users, he needs to go back and fix his damned software. Microsoft Office is a necessary evil (for now). I have never been a fan of this software suite. Whenever possible, I use iWork. In pages, I can place graphic or a text field EXACTLY where I want it with no fuss.
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Mike said 9:35AM on 8-21-2008
Who pays for office suites anymore? OOo, baby.
Seriously, anyone who hasn't given it the old college try should do so. My wife and I have gone without MS Office for several months now (ever since making the full switch to Mac) and haven't looked back. Other than a few issues with the Aqua betas, its been easy to switch. My Wife constantly receives documents from MS Office, but 99% of the time, there isn't an issue. Sometimes OOo (beta) starts using all the CPU and her fan goes insane, but thats rare.
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Ryan Trevisol said 9:22AM on 8-21-2008
My issue with 2008 is how long it took them to put it to market, only to arrive without full backwards compatibility, i.e. a converter for the XML for 2004 users. In a mixed environment that's CRUCIAL.
And I've had problems with EVERY 2008 update.
And it's not because I monkeyed with my copy of '08.
It's because I DESELECTED PRODUCTS DURING INSTALL. Office 2008 Updates will ONLY WORK if the FULL suite is installed.
That's just plain stupid.
Oh, and have these morons never heard of a ROLLUP??!?!?!
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Adam said 9:25AM on 8-21-2008
Office is a bloated, messy install. You can't blame people for wanting to fix that.
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Dave Barnes said 10:25AM on 8-21-2008
@Don O'Shea
You lasted longer with Office 2008 than I did. I went back to 2004 after two days.
For me, Word 2008 ran slower on my (Intel) iMac than 2004 under Rosetta.
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Mike Puchol said 10:55AM on 8-21-2008
Bullcrap - I never messed with any files, just did a partial install, and the updates failed to "detect" the previous version of Office. I think MS seriously understaffs and underfunds the Mac BU, resulting in gaffes like the SSL error messages on Entourage, and countless other relics from old code.
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Alejandro Ramirez said 8:36PM on 8-21-2008
Hi Mike,
Will you please share what you meant by a partial install? Are you talking about the customized installation where you can select/deselect pieces to install in the Office 2008 Installer?
If yes, could you please share exactly what pieces you are selecting?
If not, could you explain what you did?
Thanks,
Alejandro Ramirez
Microsoft Mac BU
adriaan said 11:31AM on 8-21-2008
well, i just want to be able to forward an html mail in entourage. i still do not get how the mighty microsoft could release an "enterprise friendly" entourage with no html e-mail support. didn't bill say way back in 1995 that they are embracing the internet? not html e-mail? come on... office 2008 is a joke. a bad one.
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Jeremy said 11:47AM on 8-21-2008
This is not only crap, but insulting. The number of folks that use XSlimmer et al are tiny in comparison to the problems encountered. It simply *can't* be due to just that.
Secondly, why not jsut make a Mac program that *acts* like a Mac program and doesn't come sputtering to a halt, when you remove some obscure folder in some location that the app is not supposed to be installing to in the first place.
Why does MS Office install thousands of files in dozens of folders with cryptic names and locations? That's the problem. Adobe does the same crap with it's CS suite except it installs hundreds of *thousands* of files and portions of it's "suite" even though you purposely did not select to install them.
Mac users are used to having their apps behave more reasonably. To being installed in one place and one folder and being able to delete almost anything in the library and still have the program work. This is one of the advantages of the Mac.
If the Mac BU actually started making Office more Mac like in design, there would not be a problem at all.
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roz said 11:57AM on 8-21-2008
msft sucks but if you are having trouble with the software what is so wrong with re-installing anyways? It takes like 5 minutes. If that fixes it, it seems like a reasonable solution to me.
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Quine said 12:41PM on 8-21-2008
I'm not dyed-in-the-wool, but Microsoft is my enemy because they make bad software, and I have a tendency to dislike people who make bad software.
Imo Office for Mac is the usual microsoft crap - it's got a horrible folder hierarchy just to run the program, it adds startup items every time you run entourage, entourage is just plain **** (Why the heck can't I search for mail then drag/move the mail it found to my inbox? why does it trash mail that has an invite in it once I respond, and doesn't tell me?). I'm proud to say that I never use that crud on any of my macs, and have never installed it since I fresh installed leopard so i don't have its leftover garbage sitting around.
If I were the MacBU I would be totally ashamed.
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