Apple opposes Calif. Prop 8, donates $100k to 'No' campaign

Well babble, I can see you have done much good to advance your cause with your last few posts. I think anyone with a small bit of intelligence can see where the hate is coming from now. I do not hate you but obviously you hate me.

Try this, open itunes, choose something nice and peaceful, press the spacebar, now press apple T and veg out to the visualizer for a little while. I think you really need it.

I have better things to do than to listen to your rubbish. If you had some substance and intelligent remarks I'd stick around but obviously you have spent all that you had and are now scraping the bottom of the barrel. Name calling and out right lies are all you have left in your arsenal, good luck hitting your target with that. Good night.

Nic,
Thank you, I have found that discussion can progress much further through honesty and kindness. I agree with some things you say and disagree on others. That's cool, if we all agreed on everything this life would be kind of dull.

babble,
You know nothing about me yet you can determine that I am lying. Who's being judgmental now? Nothing I have said is a lie. I know that the path this world is on is not the path I believe it should be on, but I can't stop that. I'm all for trying to find a way for us to work it out.

My solution to the current topic is simple and truthful. Make civil unions just like marriage except in name. In fact Fozzy made several great arguments, this was one of them, but your vision has become clouded. You are so emotionally overwhelmed right now, you only have venom and name calling left. Earlier in the comments you were calm and reasoned. Maybe you should take a step back and calm down, it's easier to hear you when you aren't so out of control.

I am not one of the individuals that threatened to stop using Apple products based on this decision. I am not pleased with their choice, but I did not purchase my Apple products based on any moral code. I wanted the best computer I could get and that's what I did. Apple still makes the best computing hardware and software no matter what their moral or political beliefs may be. If I stopped buying products based on a corporations political and moral beliefs there isn't much I would be buying.

I know everyone that says they aren't homophobic says they have gay friends. It sounds so cliche, but I have MANY gay friends, dear friends, we just do not discuss things like this. There is no need, I know their stance, they know mine. I bring this up in hopes that you will believe me when I say I am not lying, I would vote yes to civil unions but not to marriage. The reason why has been covered extensively by Fozzy. I believe those that don't believe in God should have a civil union and not a marriage. Marriage is ordained by God and a civil union is ordained by man. Since you seem to believe God doesn't exist why do you need him to ordain your marriage, shouldn't man be good enough?

As for civil unions in their current form not giving all rights you desire, wouldn't it be just as easy, probably easier, to rewrite the law on that? I know you would have the entire Democratic party onboard with it and a good number of Republicans would go for it. I don't believe there has been any serious effort in this direction, it has all been directed at redefining marriage. If you truly believe gay marriage will not impact life for Christians as we know it, look at the link below. Another poster presented this link earlier, it is frightening and it is a direction that gay marriage may take us. I said MAY, I don't pretend to have all the answers, just most : ).

http://www.alliancealert.org/2008/04/09/adf-to-appeal-nm-commission’s-ruling-against-christian-photographer/

Oh, one more thing.

IT'S NOT ABOUT LOVE, EITHER.

Marriage is JUST a legal integration of two people. It's a contract and under the law it is treated as such.

There are lots of people who are married and are not in love. Sometimes, it's just more practical to be married. You get a lot of special rights as a married couple, and you have someone who can act with power of attorney, next of kin, and executor of your estate, among other things. You get someone who you trust who can make decisions about your health or welfare when you are unable to do so.

Love doesn't have to enter into it, just as sex doesn't have to enter into it. All that's required for a proper marriage is two people who consent to bind themselves legally, a blood test, and a magistrate or judge to legitimize it.

Therefore, gender is NOT an issue.

Killing unreprentant homosexuals is also in the Bible, kids.

Get your rocks together. You wouldn't want to be derelict in your religious duties, now would you?

Fine let them have their civil unions but a marriage is between a man and a woman period. Look it up in the Bible.

I just wanted to point out to those mentioning "God" and "Creator" is in our Bill of Rights, that the founding fathers were Deists, not Christians. They believed in God as a non-involved origin of the universe, and not as the God (Jehovah) of the Abrahamic faiths (Christian, Judaism, Islam). There's plenty of evidence to support the fact that guys like Thomas Jefferson outright rejected Christianity and the ideals put forth in the Christian Bible.

So please, when you're trying to back up your Christian ideals about abortion or gay rights, don't reference the Bill of Rights as a Christian document, because it most certainly is not. It's a document written by Deists, but they never intended it to have any religious implications-- In fact, they intended quite the opposite.

If they had any of the information we had today regarding science and the universe, they wouldn't have even bothered mentioning God, as they'd not be mystified by the origin of life, and wouldn't require the placeholder of a Creator to describe our origins.

That's been my point all along.

Once Prop 8 has come and gone, *regardless* of the outcome of the vote, there will be vocal bigots shouting from the rooftops how "dangerous" we are; if homosexuals didn't already exist, Christians would surely have had to invent us. We're just so darned useful as a fundraising mechanism.

All I see is that the "real" people who answered in the beginning of the thread were 80% for Apple's initiative. Then the religious watchdogs chimed in, smelling blood and began their well-learned propaganda - 90% of them probably not even being Apple users.

And for those who say that Apple is alienating 50% of their clientele, it would be true if Apple's clientele was more or less a reflection of society. But it is not - their clientele is on avergae more educated, rich and more liberal - that is, exactly the population that supports gay rights (and generallly civil rights) and is against prop8...

A "civil, thoughtful" argument for disenfranchisement of an entire class of people, of less than full legal equality is no favor to us. Prejudice and bigotry aren't made nicer or more palatable by wrapping them in giftwrap and putting a nice bow on them.

It's just a new slight spin on the old spew. You lot recognize, these days, that playing the role of the firebreathing homophobes of the past was a losing gambit in your "culture war." It was costing you more converts than it was making.

So you pretend to be "nice" now.

...really, would one of you get on your direct line to God and get the Rapture started?

Please?