Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Hardware, OS, Apple, Mac Pro
Psystar releases Open(3), plays with fire
Well if you are Psystar, you apparently release more computers. Determined to stick it to Apple as hard as they possibly can before they're legally wiped off the map, Psystar has announced the release of the Open(3), a desktop running OS X and packing up to a 2.53GHz Core2Quad Q8200 processor, up to 4GB of RAM and 1TB of storage, and all of the other usual options you'd want on a machine like this (6x Blu-ray burner, GeForce 9500GT). Technically, the box starts at $599, but as Engagdet notes, even if you max it out to around $2000, you're still paying less than an equivalent Mac Pro.
This is pretty much the computer retail equivalent of Bugs Bunny kissing the hunter. We can imagine Apple's lawyers steaming from the ears at this point -- here's hoping Psystar gets to have their fun while they can.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Eric Warnke said 10:20AM on 3-19-2009
For the same price as a Mac mini you too can have an unsupported OSX system that doesn't come with BT, WiFi, iLife, Dual digital monitor support, or firewire; and it's probably noisy as well. You are trading support and some integral features of the Mac platform for a different ( not always cheaper ) sale price.
I do hope that psystar will succeed in their lawsuits as after the sale of a retail leopard box Apple should have little say unless their is a clear copyright violation.
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colouroflight said 5:08PM on 3-19-2009
Perhaps you missed the part where it's fast as hell.
Joseph Crawford said 10:33AM on 3-19-2009
I wonder if you can re-install the OS yourself if you run into trouble. The last I heard you had to ship your system back to Psystar to have it reloaded.
I can imagine this is a noisy box because Apple takes a lot of care in the design of their machines so that they are quite.
Yea no integrated bluetooth? Well they will sell you a dongle but WTF? No Firewire? damn.... The worst is that it won't support dual digital displays WTF are they thinking?
They are out to make a quick buck and that is all. I cannot wait to see them go under when Apple wins the lawsuit against them.
Want a cheap Mac? Buy the cheapest one Apple sells or buy a used one. You will be far better off staying away from these guys.
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bebopredux said 10:43AM on 3-19-2009
Apple really does need to release a desktop that we can afford. After my G5 was "retired" I realized I could never afford an adequate replacement for it. The iMac's are OK but, a tower well, it's just easier for guys like me who want to upgrade and such.
Now I use a MBP with external monitor. I get by but, Psystar sees the need here and while I'd never purchase one, I must admit it's tempting. If they can do it, then Apple can too and do it better. They've got the high end covered for those that want to drop 8G's on a desktop. They've got the Mini which is barebones. They've got the iMac which is in between. I think they feel a affordable tower would eat into the others sales. I disagree. I think they need to strike while the iron is still hot and get more Macs into more hands. I'll always pony up for the latest MBP and am a loyal, unabashed fanboy. Apple, you've already got your died-in-the-wool loyal base but, you need to reach out more. Psystar is doing what you should be doing.
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J.C. Spradley said 11:29AM on 3-19-2009
You should take a look at Efix. I just built a quad core system with 4GB of ram and a 9800GTX+ vc for $1100 using their chip and it works flawlessly. I Couldn't be happier. Efix: http://www.efi-x.com also check out http://www.expresshd.com
Joey said 3:50PM on 3-19-2009
I couldn't agree more. After my G5 was retired I was stuck in Mac Limbo. Apple no longer offered the mid level tower I'd been purchasing since the mid nineties and my only options were the iMac, which really didn't meet my needs, or the Mac Pro which was about a $1,000 more than my budget would allow.
My cries fell on deaf ears in the Mac community (Apple stuff is made of premium parts! Apple needs big margins to stay afloat!, etc.) so I took the extreme measure and rolled my own system. I ended up with a Quad Core Tower with a terabyte hard drive, 512mb video card and 8GB of ram for just under $800.
The machine worked flawlessly. It was seriously one of the best Macs I've ever owned. The trouble is guilt got the best of me and so I eventually got rid of it and purchased a used Mac Pro instead. I guess I felt it was the right thing to do. Well, $1700 later and now I've got a "real" Mac with less ram, 1/4 the storage, a pathetic video card and slightly lower benchmarks.
Was it worth it? I'm not so sure. I'm clearly not in Apple's demographic anymore so I'm only going to face this same struggle again and again. I see that now as I eye the Dell Mini 9. I think, "hey that's the perfect netbook" while Apple says, "Why not get an Air instead? All you'd be losing is portability, ports, a removable battery and four times the cash." Sigh.
Joseph said 8:53PM on 3-19-2009
Not sure what you guys mean by retired, but when my G4 MDD was retired I sold it for almost what i paid for it to get a Powerbook I then sold that 2 years later at a 20% loss for a refurbed 2.4GHz C2D macbook pro. Once you are in, it is easy to stay in.
Sjakelien said 10:46AM on 3-19-2009
Nevertheless, it's tempting, if you are able to swallow your Apple-chauvinism. I was a but shocked to see that you can basically get a system that is similar to a mac Pro for around 1300 dollars. Another 300 dollars brings the thing to your doorstep. For someone like me, living in the Eurozone, that's peanuts.
Apple really is making huge margins on the high-end machines...
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m00min said 10:54AM on 3-19-2009
While I agree that the lack of firewire, bluetooth, etc is a bit of an oversight. I think there are room for these guys. Apple increasingly offer products designed for the lowest common denominator, not professionals, historically where there market lay. If Apple don't offer what people want it's useful to have others step in and fill the gap.
Personally I've just ordered a Mini 9 solely because it runs OSX almost flawlessly. I've given up waiting for an Apple branded netbook. The only difference I see between Dell and Psystar is that Psystar actively advertising their OSX compatibility.
Oh, and before anyone feels the need to say it - no a Macbook Air is not a good netbook replacement.
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brux2dc said 11:07AM on 3-19-2009
I bought my Mini for exactly the same reason!
FYI... It works perfectly OTB! Be sure to do the OSX from thumbdrive route. Much easier.
I use an E-FIX on my main PC. I did it to really try out OS X. I now really love the Mac platform, but I can't afford a Pro and refuse to buy an All-In-One.
Hey Apple, I would buy a lower spec'd tower from you today if you offered it.
Ben said 10:49AM on 3-19-2009
When Apple decided that consumers didn't need FireWire anymore, fanbois decided it was for the best.
When Psystar decides consumers don't need FireWire anymore, fanbois are all like, WTF?!
Complaining about the lack of bluetooth? Seriously? Cos no one knows how to use a $5 bluetooth dongle?
And dual digital monitor support - is this the only thing we can think of? What next, "WTF no brushed aluminium?!?!"
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Eric Warnke said 11:17AM on 3-19-2009
Firewire, while seemingly useless, is absolutely one of the slickest ways to debug, migrate, and install. I wanted to rule out a hardware problem on my MBP and went to the apple store, put my system into target disk mode and brought my system boot drive up on another laptop.
While a $5 dongle might cut it, psystar is selling them for $40.
As for the brushed aluminum comment. Apple, for the most part, designs their systems well. They are as pretty and slick on the outside as they are on the inside. I've opened all kinds of systems over the years and the average Apple system is much easier to work in than the alternatives. It's hard to put a price on good engineering like that.
bns009 said 11:00AM on 3-19-2009
Although I have never felt the need to write a comment, I do feel strongly enough to say something. I have been following TUAW for over 2 years, and over the last 6 months I have noticed that TUAW reports news consistently 1 or 2 days after all of the other apple sites do (Appleinsider, Macrumors, engadget, gizmodo, etc.) It does not seem to be part of TUAW's core competency to report the news, so please focus on what you guys are good at. I would love to see more app reviews, how to's, etc. At first it was just a mild annoyance, but it really is now glaring.
-just expressing concern b/c i would like to see the site do well.
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harveylubin said 11:20AM on 3-19-2009
I'm a Mac user, and have been for almost 20 years. I despise the joke that is the Windows OS, and I would never use it. But, I hope that Psystar wins it's case with Apple.
The prices on the Psystar Web site (http://psystar.com/) are extremely low compared to Apple, and if they win the legal case with Apple I'd be very tempted to buy one. The reviews of these computers have been good. They're not as well designed as Apple's, but that's very easy to overlook (especially if your computer is sitting under the desk) considering the huge price difference.
For example comparing the new 4-core Mac Pro to the 4-core Psystar Open Pro:
4-core Psystar Open Pro
• Mac OS X Leopard 10.5 preinstalled and retail boxed version included
• One 2.83GHz Core2Quad Q9550 (not as good as the Xeon, but higher clock than the Mac Pro)
• 8GB of DDR2 800 memory (5 more GB of memory than the Mac Pro)
• 1TB 7,200RPM SATA2 w/32MB CACHE (larger hard drive than the Mac Pro)
• NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT with 512MB of video memory
• Dual Layer 20x DVD+/-RW SATA drive (faster drive than the Mac Pro)
• Dual Gigabit Ethernet
• 8 rear USB Ports + 2 on front = 10 USB Ports (twice as many as the Mac Pro)
• 3 Firewire 400 ports (1 std on the rear, 1 mini on the rear, 1 std on the front)
• 7 channel Integrated Audio SPDIF and Optical Output
Price: $1,329.99 US
4-core Mac Pro
• Mac OS X Leopard 10.5
• One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
• 3GB of DDR3 memory
• 640GB 7,200RPM SATA hard drive
• NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB of video memory
• Dual Layer 18x DVD+/-RW SATA drive (like a SuperDrive)
• Dual Gigabit Ethernet
• 3 rear USB Ports + 2 on front = 5 USB Ports
• 4 Firewire 800 ports (2 on the rear, 2 on the front)
• Analog stereo and Optical Output
Price: $2,499.00 US
For most people the real world speed of these 2 machines would be close to equal. They both have the same expandability. The Mac Pro is better designed and built, but does that justify a $1,170 premium on top of a $1,330 computer?
If a small company like Psystar can sell a better spec'd computer than Apple's at almost half the price, then something is very wrong with Apple's business model… especially since they have the financial advantage of having much larger production runs and purchasing clout than Psystar. Yes, it's not a Mac, and yes, it's not built as well; but there is really no excuse for this big of a price difference!
I would much rather buy an Apple computer than a clone. But at twice the price of a similarly configured Psystar computer, the Mac Pro (even with it's nicer design) is obscene.
I would gladly pay an extra 25% premium over the price of the Psystar computer to get a similarly configured Mac Pro. But with the price being almost double, the choice is a no-brainer for me (as well as for many other people).
Up until a year ago, Apple was very competitive in their pricing. But currently they are unquestionably being too greedy in how much they are marking up the products that cost them so much less to produce than before.
With the current crop of Apple's computers no one can say they are competitively (or realistically) priced anymore. And there is simply no justifiable reason for this. Apple's costs to build Macs has been reduced as it has in the PC world. Also, with Apple having sold more Macs over the past few years, their unit cost has been dropping as well.
Apple's notebooks have changed their form factor in the last update. But the Mac Pro has had the same form factor since it used the G5, the Mac mini has had the same form factor since it used the G4, and the iMac hasn't changed it's form factor in the last update either.
These form factor carryovers also contribute to reducing Apple's hardware development costs on it's current models.
Yet Apple has greedily increased their markup on computers during the past year by keeping prices high, and not passing along their savings to their loyal customers.
I really hope that Psystar wins the case. If they do, it will put some much needed pressure on Apple to adjust their pricing to a more competitive level.
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Brian said 12:44PM on 3-19-2009
Where you're wrong is saying that this machine is similarly or better spec'd out than a Mac Pro. They are clearly different classes of machines, and no amount of throwing numbers around will change that. This is more like a glorified iMac in a different form factor (or a last-gen Mac Pro relative to the new ones). You couldn't even build a Mac Pro right now if you wanted to, since the new processor hasn't been officially announced by Intel. Apple is the only one currently offering that processor right now.
And what color is the sky in your universe, since you clearly don't inhabit the same one we do? If anything, Apple has only made their pricing *more* competitive, dropping the price of their entry-level MacBook, and dropping the cost of their entry-level 24" iMac to the cost of their previous top of the line 20" model. You can either have the top-level hardware or you can have cheaper prices; you can't have both.
I'm tired of the ninnies who say, "Waaaah! Apple is too expensive". Apple has clearly stated that they're not interested in going after the bargain or entry-level computer market, and the Mac OS EULA clearly states that their OS is to be installed on their hardware only. If you think Apple hardware is too expensive, and you don't want to buy used or refurbishes equipment, use another OS. Apple would only serve to cannibalize their own sales if they opened up an OS licensing program again. That's essentially what happened in their first go-round with third-party licensing of Mac OS.
Psystar is toast. There's no chance they're going to win this lawsuit. And I'm going to be amused by the people who bought Psystar machines who can't support them after these fly-by-night operators decide to take their ball & go home. Part of the reason we pay a premium for Apple products is because generally speaking they just work, and when they don't work we take them to an Apple Genius Bar where we're provided with a fairly unprecedented level of support in the electronics market.
SpinThis! said 12:46PM on 3-19-2009
The problem with specs and comparisons is people rarely look at *exactly* what they're getting. I'm talking about power supply watt-by-watt, video card (not just the chipset), etc.People are still building a quad-core system with Core 2s and saying "even" when they should be looking at Core i7.
Last year when I bought my 8-core Mac Pro, I compared exactly what Apple was offering to what you could get, say, on newegg, and Apple was pretty competitive. If you would have priced out a similar system, those Xeons cost $700+/piece. And you're not even at the motherboard (which you need a server board to handle dual xeons), power supply (Mac Pros come with 1000 watt supplies to handle everything you're going to throw in there... a few people are throwing in 500 watts or less), case, ram, video card, etc. Then to be fair, you need to compare it with Vista Ultimate.
Do we need a high-end tower with Xeons? Probably not, but that's irrelevant in a comparison chart. We need a mid-range tower, great, but don't compare Apples with oranges and say Apple is ripping you off.
frogbat said 11:31AM on 3-19-2009
i think your comparison is completely unfair for the simple reason that the xeon processors that apple is using in the mac pro's aren't the same in spite of the clock speed. Also the bus and ram configs and everythign else in a mac pro is indeed design to get the most out of the hw which is still outpacing the os and software's ability to maximise this potential.
I do agree with the sentiments that we need a mid range tower. My G5 is due for retirement, a mac pro is too prohibitive as it would be used for freelance work. I don't want an all in one as they cause too many probs and have too many compromises. So i kept my macbook and have ordered a large monitor for it (thanks apple for the adc!)
i really don't understand apple's lack of understanding that just as much as there is need of a mac mini and an imac there is a need of a mac midi to sit between the imac and the mac pro. Their sales would multiply.
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SpinThis! said 2:32PM on 3-19-2009
If you mac money with a Mac pro, a) write it off and b) it'll be worth the expense because it will last longer than any other Apple models. Late model G5s are still going for over $1000 on ebay if you want to recoup some of our income.
I feel for G5 owners because they were essentially caught in limbo in the whole Intel transition. You buy a g5 and less than a year or so later, Intel comes out with their Core architecture just beats everything else and costs less and Apple wants to pull out the rug a little bit.
My previous Apple towers lasted 5+ years. My MDD I bought in 2003 or so is still functioning and actually runs CS4 and Leopard just fine. My Beige G3 still runs too but that's been since retired and sits in the closet but it'll run Tiger. Not bad for a machine built in 1999!
Josh said 11:32AM on 3-19-2009
Great comment, Harvey. Apple's prices are insane and it would do everyone good if they had some competition. I like Apple's hardware and design (with the exception of the Mighty Mouse), but I buy Macs because of OS X. If I could get a good system with OS X for half the price, I'd buy it.
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glad said 11:41AM on 3-19-2009
Apple do have competition they are called PC's and you are welcome to purchase a windows machine anytime. Oh you want the OS only well the hardware and software is joined at the hip or is that too difficult to work out. You could always use Linux, no one forces you to. You basically don't seem to have a grasp of economics and how businesses maintain a successful business model. If you want cheap go buy an emachine or a Dell and look what thats done to their revenue. Shortsighted ignorant selfish consumers me me me me me, which is one reason for the current state of the world economy.