Uh, did anyone notice that the article basically says Internet Explorer runs native on Macs right now? Didn't MS dropped IE for Mac ages ago? I do see that 5.x has a package installer if you search on Google for it and it claims to run on OS X, but I dare not install it. Does anyone here actually have this POS actually running on their Tiger or Leopard Mac?

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Wait a sec... this article is bullshit, there's no IE at all for Mac now as I thought unless you want to run Windows IE in emulation. Why did TUAW even waste our time with an article from a writer so obviously ignorant of Macs? Sigh... http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2200538&tstart=0

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Because Jobs is the only innovative person in the world they could hire? Right...

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Hey look, it's a troll... snore...

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I like it when most blogs are critical of Apple unfairly or udderwise... I think it keeps pushing Apple. I think the day Apple stops being the underdog is the day we'll start seeing the same problems with the computer hardware as we see with iPods, etc. in limiting choice of apps, etc.

I hope they never let up on Apple.

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Bull, when you stop using the ridiculous claims of iLife and AV software, then we'll stop using that myth.

1. I don't need iLife, why should I pay for it? The only thing missing from Windows are iWeb and Garageband, which many don't need, and the basic apps with WinLive are more than enough for me and a lot of people.
2. AV protection comes free from MS, among many other companies, it costs me $0.00 a year to protect all the PCs in my house.

Macs don't come with a full version of any real Word processor, so I have to either shell out at least $69 for iWork, or suffer the horrible slowness of OOo on a Mac. And this is far more important to me than iLife, I need to get work done. (Maybe people were right when they said Mac users don't care about iWork). Almost every retail PC you buy comes with Works, which will at least let you get the basic job done.

And power, on laptops, PCs have a slightly better value, but desktops are huge. I have a core i7 with 9 GB of RAM and 1TB HDD paired to a 24" monitor that all cost me $1500. Show me any setup from Apple that can match that power. They can't, they provide no power option to mid-range users.

Oh, this gap gets bigger if I choose to build my own machine, which is actually allowed in the PC world.

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gee, sc7, i don't know what you're talking about - my MBP came with a copy of iLife, so i could use all the things i needed right out the box, including a word processor that puts crap like MS works to shame. and even if iLife wasn't included, that's why open-source apps like Bean exist.

all that being said, this article was indeed terrible. i mean, come on — it's Jonathan Ive, not Ives, for one.

and sure, you could build your own machine, but if you factor in your time doing it and how much your time is worth, i'll bet you'll still come out about equal. the whole 'apple tax' thing has been busted time and time again, but it's all the windows users have, so they beat that drum as loud as they can.

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@sc7

The 24" iMac (not core i7) with starts at $1500 for 640GB HDD and 4GB RAM. Pretty close for the average consumer, wouldn't you say? Now, a power user like yourself may not go for it, but then you aren't Apple's target market.

I'll grant you that you can cut out the iLife suite because you can get comparable options (for free) on a PC such as Picasa.

But if you build your own machine, and go Windows rather than Linux, and pay for proper licensing then you have to tack on at least a couple hundred bucks, which eats up a large gap. But again, people who build their own PCs are a tiny market that Apple isn't interested in. The vast majority of people don't do that.

Apples are a little more expensive, sure. But the build quality demolishes every PC I've ever seen or used, especially for laptops. My iBook G4 is still kicking since 2005 and works great. My MacBook Pro from 2006 still kicks ass. I've burned through 3 laptop PCs at work in 2.5 years and 6 hard drives on those laptops. I probably use my personal computers more than my work PC as I often do work on my personal computer simply because it's a Mac and I feel gives me a better user experience.

So TCO, at least for me, is definitely lower with Apple than with any fugly PC.

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Frank, what word processor comes with iLife that is actually able to do serious word processing?

And the iMac is not a fair deal. You can get PCs with 6 GB of ram for near $500 now. Not to mention for that same price, you get a mobile dual core as opposed to a much more powerful desktop quad core, not even in the same league. My rig also came with a GTX 260, not a 9400m.

Oh, and high quality?

"Highest Overall Quality" Citation:

17" MacBook Pro brightness problems

17" MacBook Pro graphics problems (display lines)

17" and 15" MacBook Pro battery swelling

15" MacBook Pro's buzzing/whining noises

15" MacBook Pro's inability to wake from sleep

15" MacBook Pro's exhibiting unexpected shutdowns

13" MacBooks with unresponsive or "squishy" trackpad buttons

MacBook audio jacks problem

MacBooks are notebooks, not laptops because they run hot and Apple does not recommend you use them on your lap

Melting MagSafe Adapters

Fraying MagSafe Connectors

MacBooks with lame LCDs only capable of displaying 260,000 instead of the 16 million promised

MacBook's (and iBook G4's) notorious hairline cracks along the bottom and top enclosure.

MacBook Pro's warped lids

MacBook Pro's with powdercoat rubbing off

Defective 2.5" Seagate drives shipped in MacBooks

MacBook "no button" trackpads not registering clicks

MacBook discolored palm rests

MacBook logic boards failing

MacBook fan exhaust covered in tape

MacBooks with misapplied thermal paste

PowerBooks with keyboard keys pressing into the LCD display when closed gradually killing the display

MacBook Air's self loosening hinges

2009 MacBook Pro's artificially limited SATA IO (1.5Gbit/sec instead of 3Gbit/sec)

iPhone overheating

iPhone oleophobic coating getting rubbed off display

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@sc7

You've done a great job explaining why a Mac isn't for you, something I've already admitted is true. But guess what, MOST consumers don't care about the little things you care about.

And yes, I would put Apple's quality up against any Dell, HP, or home built PC any day of the week.

Why isn't the iMac a fair deal? You asked me for something similar around $1500. I gave you that.

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sc7, I'd embarrass you with a massive list of issues with the Wintel piece of shits you espouse, but it would probably crash your crap Windows computer.

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@sc7

I'm sure if you went through the message boards and documented the problems of similar products from other manufactures you'd find a similar, if not larger, array of problems due to manufacturing. I mean there is a reason why Apple is first in customer satisfaction. If the problems you listed were rampant, then surely they would not be at the top of the heap in that area.

Or do you believe that the Apple buying public is wearing rose colored glasses, and are happy to have machines that, according to you, have so many problems?

I've had Apple laptops for years... I am currently writing this on an Apple laptop, and its on my lap...

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I'm just gonna throw in that Microsoft is now providing free (though somewhat ad supported) office. Works no longer exists, you now get a free fully functioning copy of office.

iLife has nothing on Office. I would never use iLife. And sc7 is correct, the only things missing from iLife on a new pc are iweb and garageband, which indeed are 2 things most people don't care about.

@LD: Most people don't care about the little things? WTF man? This is the excuse Mac users have been trying to use as a reason FOR using a Mac.

I do believe Apple would go downhill without Jobs in the long run. Though he was on medical leave, you can bet he still had a hand in everything that happened at Apple. And look what happened to the products that were in development while he was gone, iphone 3gs overheating, iphone freezing, not waking up from sleep, all other iphone problems with 3.0, snow leopard eating users data, snow leopard killing peoples battery life, etc. Apple knows how to function without Jobs, but they can't do it the way he does, and without him there completely they will slowly fall apart again.

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@sc7

"MacBooks are notebooks, not laptops because they run hot and Apple does not recommend you use them on your lap"

After 15 months my macbook was to a point where a youtube video would overheat the processor and force shutdown the system. After giving them a bad review on a survey (from applecare) they called me and told me the above was the reason why it made so much heat. Guess which company is getting my money now? (it isn't Apple that's for sure).

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