FireWire feedback from readers and Apple

Yesterday's discussion post about the exclusion of FireWire from the newest MacBooks generated a tremendous amount of reader feedback and discussion. We decided to take an unscientific straw Twitter poll which generated a large response, underscoring that for the Mac community, FireWire is a big deal.

The responses to the blog post were largely in support of my thesis: that losing FireWire from the MacBook is a big deal and a potential (or actual) deal-breaker for many, many users. This was to be expected, as people who are upset about FireWire's disappearance are more likely to respond to an article sharing that sentiment. On Twitter, however, when we just asked, "Is the lack of FireWire on the new unibody MacBook a deal-breaker for you, yes or no?" the data was less skewed.

A majority of the Twitter users that responded to our poll said "no, it is not a deal-breaker." Many commented that the loss is disappointing, but ultimately it won't prevent them from buying a new MacBook. Still, more than one third of the responses were "yes, this is a deal-breaker." Many users are considering putting off upgrading altogether; others expressed discomfort with being forced to buy a MacBook Pro (either the new units, or the now heavily-discounted older units).

A note to concerned future MacBook Pro users: you can get an inexpensive cable with FW400 on one end and FW800 on the other -- no adapter needed, just a new cord for your camera or audio device. Be warned, however, that the presence of a FW400 device in the chain will drop the speed of any FW800 devices to the older standard.

Reader David sent Steve Jobs (or sjobs@apple.com) an e-mail, expressing his disappointment by the lack of FireWire on new MacBooks. The response (which David forwarded and we verified had the correct mail-header information), is pretty interesting...

"Actually, all the new HD camcorders of the past few years use USB 2."

You know, I really don't want to get too pedantic about that statement, but that simply is not true. It is true that the industry standard for consumer HD video has emerged in the form of AVCHD. Because that format is either stored on a hard disk or on flash media (and in its original incarnation, burned directly to a DVD), it's accessible via USB 2.0. It is also true that AVCHD is still not completely supported for native editing by most popular software packages. In fact, Adobe Premeire Pro didn't even support the format until CS4, which was released yesterday. iMovie '08, Final Cut Express 4 and Final Cut Studio can edit AVCHD footage, but it has to be converted to the Apple Intermediate Codec on the fly (or batch converted with the VoltaicHD tool, which adds the bonus of allowing PPC machines to work with the format).

Furthermore, although it has lagged behind AVCHD in popularity, HDV cameras are still sold, and because HDV uses MiniDV tapes, it is a popular choice for consumers who either bought HD cameras early, or still want to be able to play back their MiniDV footage. XDCAM EX and DVCPRO HD have supplanted HDV in the professional market, but many of the better prosumer cameras are HDV, not AVCHD. Even with the USB 2 port found on most DVCPRO HD cams, you still can't capture footage from tape with it; that's a job for FireWire.

But fine, for the sake of argument, let's assume that every HD consumer camera sold in the last year was AVCHD (I won't even acknowledge "few years" because iMovie didn't even support AVCHD until August of 2007). That still leaves a lot of users, a lot of consumers with MiniDV cameras. Obviously older technology cannot and should not be supported forever, but we are hardly at the tipping point for mass replacement of every MiniDV camera, right?

David sent an additional response, raising the question of cost of the new USB 2.0 cameras. The Apple response this time, "The new HD camcorders start around $500." So I suppose Apple's position is that we are at that tipping point. Fair enough, it still leaves lots of us with a decision to make: upgrade the camera and computer, buy the more expensive computer or just hold off on upgrading altogether.

I don't think I would be so confused if this wasn't the interface that Apple has touted and encouraged for so many years. It would also be less upsetting if users were at least given an alternative. Most PC laptops come with Express Card slots as a standard feature. Then, you could just buy a FireWire card. No problem. The same goes for the iMac, whenever they eventually phase out FireWire. On a PC, you can add a PCI-Express card. On the iMac, you're out of luck.

All I can say, is that if you are a Mac user who has no intention on buying a Mac Pro or a MacBook Pro, I would seriously reconsider buying any FireWire devices in the future. It is clear that as far as the consumer lineup is concerned, FireWire 400 or 800 is on the way out, and chances are the equipment won't work with your next hardware upgrade.

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Source: http://www.tuaw.com/category/macbook

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Analysis / Opinion Hardware Bad Apple MacBook

Yesterday's discussion post about the exclusion of FireWire from the newest MacBooks generated a tremendous amount of reader feedback and...

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Just by an adaptor FW to USB their both serial Right ?

December 13 2008 at 8:34 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

vandil

Apple has updated their Support page on FireWire Target Disk mode, now noting that it works on "MacBook models introduced before October 2008".

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1661

November 06 2008 at 3:00 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

jackew

This sudden removal of Firewire reminds me of when Apple, without warning, switched to SCSI. Everyone had to scramble to purchase new equipment. Then, for quite a few years everything was SCSI . . . until, and again without warning, they dropped it entirely, and switched to Firewire and USB. No backwards capability, no slowly merging. Just WHAM!

November 04 2008 at 9:53 AM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

Rosetta Mobley

I'm posting the email that I just sent to Apple regarding this issue, because it will really affect my daily work and hundreds of others that I support:
=========================================
Hi, Apple,
I work for a smaller school district in Arizona that has funding issues (as do many school districts now and undoubtably in the future).

We are an all-Mac site with about 600+ Macs, maintained by only 3 technical people. FireWire ports with the TARGET drive are ESSENTIAL for us for diagnostics and maintenance of the computers. Eliminating such a critical support capability will really affect us and our ability to maintain our computers. We have hundreds of laptops used by students, and every summer, we spend large amounts of time re-imaging the computers to clean up what kids have downloaded and created on them over the school year.

Your re-design may make great business-sense in your industry, but in the education industry, it will really hurt the small schools who are trying to teach kids about technology. I always thought Apple was pro-education.

Please reconsider your decision, Apple!

Thank you,

Rosetta Mobley
Technology Assistant
Sedona Oak Creek Unified School District
Sedona, AZ 86336

October 24 2008 at 2:39 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

Jake

Let Apple know how you feel in regards to firewire, sign the petition to bring back firewire..

www.bringbackfirewire.com

October 23 2008 at 9:04 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

wuzzle

I was considering a new Macbook to finally get off the Hackintosh and back onto a Mac - I used to have a dual G5 but that's not very portable. I am a VJ, one of the underpaid but creative users these machines are supposed to be catering to. A niche, but a popular one. Most good external audio interfaces are not USB, but firewire.

Also, all professional Video mixers are S-Video/Composite, not VGA or DVI. (read: no available adaptor for this new Mini DisplayPort to anything useful) This means even buying a Macbook Pro won't work.

In one fell swoop, Apple has managed to invalidate the use of one of the most popular machines for gigs for both video and audio. Bravo!

October 22 2008 at 5:29 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

Peter Payne

I was mad as hell at the change, but then I realized I'd switched my FW800 drive to a USB connection so I could have one single USB to my laptop (through my monitor, which has many USB ports), opting for simplicity over speed of backup. I also found this incredible 250 gb hard drive that's USB and requires no power supply, so when the time comes this is what I'll use, I guess.

October 20 2008 at 11:14 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

Perion Smith

Here you go, a petition for all upset consumers. 9,000 + Signatures and counting

http://www.petitiononline.com/MB1394/petition-sign.html

October 20 2008 at 2:30 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

Gabriel Radic

I have invested too much into too many FW external drives and camcorder. Also, the FW Target disk mode is too cool to give it away.

I am sort of in the market for a new MBP. I guess I'll have to keep an eye on the refurb store to get a previous generation one.

October 20 2008 at 4:05 AM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply

Jonathan Sparks

I just got a new macbook pro about a year ago.
so I won't get a new one real soon but that it doesn't
have firewire 400 is a bummer....I understand that
everything is movig to USB 2..blah blah...
but lets face it it only has 2 usb ports.
I have 2 usb hard drives and 3 flash drives....
and 4 firewire400 drives...the problem I have with USB....
not the speed but it's not daisy chainable
and many of todays USB drives cannot be bus powered...
you have to use an adapter and use both USB ports
1 for power and 1 for data....thats not what I call bus powered.