Jobs Blasts Teachers Unions

It's pretty sad people who have never worked in education condemning it and thinking they understand how it works. I can understand your ignorance, because I USED TO have many of the same thoughts. Then I became a teacher and found out what really goes on in the classroom.

The way it is.

Sad fact:

There are unions that protect losers. (Happens in construction, electrical unions, pretty much any organization or clan)

Positive fact:

However, there are many many unions that work to weed out both tenured (one good thing) and non-tenured dead weight (second good thing). This isn't speculation; I have been a union rep for five years and have seen this phenomenon at work.

There is a reason for tenure and it's a good one: It allows teachers to express opinions and teach the way they know their field best, without administrators or overzealous board members, many of whom have NEVER TAUGHT A DAY IN THEIR LIFE, firing teachers on a whim. I've watched this happen.

Tenure ensures DUE PROCESS. Repeat: Tenure ensures DUE PROCESS. (third good thing)

Before working in public education (for over a decade) I taught in private school. I remember two of my colleagues were fired on a whim. These were men that I knew and worked with for many years. They were dedicated professionals working for chump change. One was fired for giving advice to a student that the principal didn't agree with. The other was fired for having a conversation with a student whose tone the principal didn't agree with. Both of these teachers had in 20 years of service and were fired within a day. Great. They were making $40,000 those darn "overpaid teachers".

If teachers are incompetent, then the board of ed and administrators need to react and get rid of said teachers. Most teachers can't stand lame teachers making the good ones look bad. As one poster commented, some admins don't have the balls to initiate tenure hearings. That's true.

Remember that unlike some county and government positions where employees are granted permanent positions after only 6 month probation periods, teachers can be let go at any point before receiving tenure (typically THREE YEARS, but can be extended from four to seven years, or as little as two years on the condition that the teacher has previously been tenured in another school position). Bad teachers should NOT get tenure.

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As to the comment that the "good teachers will keep their jobs," that's nonsense. I have seen many teachers fired because administrators and board of ed members were scared of the teachers having too much sway with students and teachers. I have seen some of these teachers get jobs elsewhere and some have retained their jobs because of groundswells of parent/student support coming to schools with petitions to save those teachers.

Keep in mind the insane parents that take everything their children say as gospel and, just to make those insane parents shut up, it is sometimes easier to just get rid of the teacher.


I too have had personality conflicts (pre-tenure) with administrators. Fortunately, I've outlasted all of these administrators as they've moved on to "more powerful positions" or have been fired themselves. I'm still teaching.


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Performance based pay? Do some homework / research here. It's been tried.... and hasn't worked. There are FAR too many valuables to have merit pay taken seriously here:

Which teacher gets which students?
How large are the classes? (keep in mind that classes cannot be split "equally" due to blocking/scheduling conflicts and budget restraints).
How soon after taking their big-pharm-industry "behavior" medications do teachers see certain students / what time of day will the clases be when teachers get their students? (hint: students are more unruly after high-sugar lunches and after their Ritalin has worn off).
How many students are emotionally disturbed/coming from broken homes/unruly disturbances in class?
How many children are ADD/crack babies in each class? How many autistic / learning disabled in each class?
Who gets the better paraprofessionals? Teaching assistants? Who gets the awful teaching assistants to work with the high-needs students (the TAs who do more to disrupt the class than to help it? These TAs which cannot be replaced because no one wants their crappy jobs).
Who gets the kids who regularly bring weapons (knives/guns) to class? Who gets the kids brining/selling their drugs to class?
Who gets the boys who masturbate in class?
Who gets the girls who masturbate in class?
Who gets the girls who change their bloody pads during class (and stick them under the desk/on the desk/on othe

I was a new teacher back in the day when public school "managers" dumped hundreds of thousands Apple IIe's in our classrooms, making Steve Jobs a very wealthy young man. Training? Support? Maintenance? Apple still can't supply these to the educational market. The one and only reason that technology in education took root was because of all of the dedicated teachers who taught themselves and others how to use the technology to improve education. Get over yourself Stevie, it is these same unionized teachers who allow you to live in splendor today.

Glad to see Jobs speak out on what is mostly true. The teachers' unions have not helped in our system of public education. Give 'em hell, Steve.

Now, let's go after the parents, too.

I left teaching high school two years ago for a number of reasons....
1. Idiot parents.
2. Being a recognized teacher with a master's degree who was chosen for nearly every important school and district project, yet only made $5000 more than a beginning teacher.
3. Idiot central office personnel who don't ask us what we need to do our job better.
4. Idiot school boards that micro-manage individual schools in response to idiot parents.
5. Idiot politicians who only enter classrooms for photo opps.


I agree there are many teachers who should not be in teaching, but the fact remains that not many people want to be teachers. The average tenure is less than 3 years...I lasted 12 before I said to hell with it and went back to grad school. I'm now teaching higher ed and love every minute. Teachers unions are part of the problem, but are a growing response to a system that educators have little to no control over. During the next election, don't trust any politician who waves the "education banner." I've only seen one that had any sense of what was going on in the schools and she didn't make it to a second term.

When local unions apply industrial techniques against volunteer district school boards they win every time. Breaking the back of good administrators may save the jobs of the mediocre and worse, but it drives out any dedicated professional teachers.
I hate the NEA with a fire that cannot be quenched. With that said, privatizing schools at this point would be a mistake. Local boards have got to put on their foul weather gear and dive into the storm. Make your State help. Private education will cement the class stratification in place for
generations.
Long live the reality distortion field!

Bruce,
If you've been a middle school teacher for 18 years, then shame on your poor grammar.
Not "Those of us that"
but rather
"Those of us who"
oh, and no hyphen needed in each other. I think you've made Steve's point for him, except you aren't in a union. You're just another illiterate teacher.

Gosh never thought I would see a discussion about teacher's unions on TUAW but Unkie Steve had to go run off his mouth about a subject he's entitled to have an opinion about but like many here as pointed out he's wrong about. The edcuation system in the US has many complex issues facing it. To blame it on the unions and crappy teachers for that matter is to take an overly simplistic view of the problem which is helpful to no one in the end. Good for some flaming discussions but does not get to the nitty gritty of the real issues. A discussion is needed but the question is should it be done on a technology related blog such as TUAW? I would rather see this in a place where it will make a true difference like in the various school boards across America where school taxes are increasigly high, resources are getting tighter and administrators, teacher and parents debate of programs, curriculum and the like. Push this one in the upcoming elections in 2008... Ask our President why we spend so much money on war and not enough in our school systems. why is it my friends abroad went to school fro free when I and many others like me had to take out gobs of student loans to get a decent education? We can go on and on lets go on where it really matters.

This is perhaps the first stimulating commentary I've read on this blog. First of all, every single person who has posted a comment in DEFENSE of these Teacher's Union's is an uneducated, stereotypical American Idiot.

You are the type of person who believes the Government can, does, and will continue to fix everything, and do a great job.

These unions are a terrible threat to the future of this country. Children educated by Government schools are consistently dumber than kids from either private schools, or even other countries such as Belgium where the parent's have... *drum roll* _school choice_

Government Teachers are essentially guaranteed employment without any worry for performance or quality of work. Because parents do not have the choice to decide where their children attend school in the Government system, apathetic teachers can, and will do whatever they please (including nothing at all).

Imagine what _could_ happen if we truly had _school choice_? Teacher doing a bad job? Fuck you - We're going to District B!

That's why private schools work. Dollars are speaking, the dollar's of the parent's. These schools understand that if they do a shitty job, the parent's will NOT PAY THEM to educate their children and they will therefore LOSE MONEY.

Competition is the key and it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in the Government school system. We need these incompetent and complacent teacher's OUT of the system and competition WILL weed them out, and I'm willing to be there are thousands of replacements out there waiting for their chance.

I have personally gone through a dozen Government school systems as a child and I have seen my fair share of worthless, apathetic and incompetent teachers-but I've also met some very good teachers who truly care about the future of the child they're trying to educate.

Not every teacher is a hero. Not every teacher deserves their salary. Accountability will set Government Schools free!

Name 3 good things that have come out of any Teachers Union. Three. That's it. Just three.

Remember "No child left behind" ? Yea, what happened to that? The key aspect of that act, school choice, was cut out of it before it was passed.

For everyone else who thinks with more than their brain stem, I congratulate you. I admire anyone with the balls to speak out against this travesty that is the Teachers Union, even Steve Jobs.

I live in New York City. The problem with teachers' unions-NYC's in particular-has historically been a lack of interest in making sure the school system is functional and doing the best job it can of teaching students, in favor of putting their jobs, salaries and tenures first. That's not the way it should work. Teachers' unions need to put kids first. Period.

Does that mean ALL teachers' unions are bad. No. That's why I have trouble with Steve's statement. there are so many teachers' unions nationwide that you simply can't paint a picture in such broad strokes.

#13, #14, #15 and #16, did you bother to calculate for the context within which he stated his OPINION? It doesn't read as though you had when you posted your reaction.

This is nothing new. Jobs has been "criticizing" the teacher's union for at least 10 YEARS and perhaps much longer (see his Smithsonian interview). You'll discover that the area of education is something that Jobs is passionate about.

And don't forget, Jobs has children of his own. That alone qualifies him to comment on the current situation in the public schools.

Opinion. Does that word mean anything to you? The way you stated _your_ opinion suggests that some people are qualified to speak out and others are not. Is that what you're teaching your children?