Filed under: Education, Odds and ends, Steve Jobs
Jobs Blasts Teachers Unions
Well having annoyed a lot of folks with his recent missive on DRM, Uncle Steve seemed likely to be making more enemies on Friday at a conference in Texas about K-12 education reform where he appeared along with Michael Dell. The AP reports that Jobs said, "I believe that what is wrong with our schools in this nation is that they have become unionized in the worst possible way. This unionization and lifetime employment of K-12 teachers is off-the-charts crazy." Being in higher education, I see the results of our K-12 education on a daily basis, and it's clear that there's a problem. One interesting thing about this, whether you ultimately agree with Jobs or not, is that he felt free to say it. Jobs even allowed, "Apple just lost some business in this state, I'm sure," though the AP noted that "the audience applauded enthusiastically" several times. It is perhaps not surprising that Dell "sat quietly with his hands folded in his lap" while Jobs was being his charismatic self.[Via NSLog();]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
ceh said 10:16AM on 2-18-2007
Jobs should stick to what he knows and save his criticisms for dinner parties and the water cooler.
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Karl Childers said 10:33AM on 2-18-2007
He was at a conference on education reform and he shouldn't criticize? I think that was th e whole point. To openly discuss ideas and his idea has merit. Think about it. Once teachers get a job the chances of losing it are very small. They get raises based on degrees and years of service not actual performance and anytime reforms in this area are raised the unions go crazy. If you want real reform in education you must introduce competition.
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Todd said 10:37AM on 2-18-2007
Hard to argue these facts...
My school taxes are among the highest the nation and there's very little accountability. Even though I'm paying a ridiculous tax rate, another $20 million bond was passed to "pay" for maintenance that should have been part of the "operating budget". So, yeah, let's keep poor school performance, poor teachers and pay more money.
How about running the place just a little like a business with accountability and pay for performance. The marketplace works every time it's tried.
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kivers said 10:45AM on 2-18-2007
jobs for president
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Geoff said 11:11AM on 2-18-2007
Considering the terrible conditions that public school teachers work in, and how little they're paid for their suffering (AND hard work), I'd say job security is THE LEAST we can give them. Hey: noone needs to become a teacher. It's a fucking THANKLESS job. Job security is at best mitigating the terrible circumstances that teachers work under. Take that away and what's left for them? We already prove we don't value them or education. Are we going to piss on these people when they're down?
If he's anti-union, most likely he also secretly favors privatizing the public school system too (or openly? Has he commented on the issue?).
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clifyt said 11:12AM on 2-18-2007
I completely agree. I work for higher ed directly with entering students and have been working closely with the local k-12 school systems. There are a lot of GREAT teachers out there...unfortunately, it only takes one to derail a student and ruin them for the rest of their stay in the system. Its not like college where you can choose where you want to go to school, or what classes you pick.
I know within HigherEd, it is much the same way. I have been demanding performance reviews for YEARS in my department, yet no one has the balls to do it. The idiots stay on, while to good folks leave in disgust (or are "rif'd" when budgets come up because its easier to get rid of the folks that are making waves than the frigtards that have firmly entrenched themselves and formed pacts to protect each other). Even if we might not have unions in our area, we have entrenched Human Resources that are just as bad and were probably formed by the worst of the worst of the unions hell bent on making certain they do the least amount of work.
But yes, he is entirely right about the unions. They were designed for the right reasons, but they protect entirely the wrong people.
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muso_rah said 7:59PM on 2-18-2007
Sure - just give schools the opportunity to control the raw materials the same way businesses do. If, like a business, they find some of their raw material (children) isn't properly supported by the manufacturer (parents, they will find a better source and that supplier will need to either upgrade its product and reapply or find another market.
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Brian said 11:15AM on 2-18-2007
Boycott Apple.
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Lester Spence said 11:16AM on 2-18-2007
The market doesn't work well at administering public goods, which is why the countries that are best at educating youth tend to shy away from market oriented solutions.
Here's my question.
We get rid of tenure--or modify it significantly.
And we keep the schools exactly the same. Same teaching methods, same school day structure, same general purpose.
Do ANY outcomes significantly improve?
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LittleJoe said 11:19AM on 2-18-2007
Steve is right on in this department. Im 23 so it wasnt too long ago that I was in the k-12. I had so many awful, careless, tenured teachers that made school so depressing for myself and classmates. Our school district was one of the worst in the state and you could tell which teachers were staying there for the tenure and which teachers were there because they truly cared about the kids.
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Bill said 11:25AM on 2-18-2007
#5 - What a load of crap. They should have a job without needing to perform just because they have a rough job? It's hardly a thankless job if they turn out a quality product. The Teachers Union is one the largest threats to this county. There are good teachers, but they would keep their jobs - it's the ones that just drag though knowing they can't be fired that are the problem.
Unions are about two things - make $'s for the union bosses and guaranteeing jobs for incompetent workers. They nearly single handedly destroyed the US auto industry (but that's straying off).
Privatizing just about anything, including schools, is almost always an improvement. There is very little that is done competently and efficiently by the government.
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Bruce said 12:18PM on 2-18-2007
I have been a middle school teacher for 18 years. I get a raise every year based on merit and I can be fired at any time. I work with other quality teachers an we have high expectations for each-other. Those of us that are good at what we do have all the job security we need. I work at a private school and we are made very accountable for educating our students. Our students outperform the unionized schools in every academic category by a wide margin. All students should have access to good teachers, but unions preserve bad teachers in the name of fairness. Fair to a bunch of deadbeats, but not fair to the students or the tax payers. Good teachers do not need artificial job security.
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Edsel said 12:26PM on 2-18-2007
Union membership is declining in the private sector but growing in the public sector. This should be a concern for every taxpayer.
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Erasmus said 12:29PM on 2-18-2007
Unions are not what's wrong with American education. Children living in poverty and a funding scheme that discriminates against minorities are what screws it up. The schools I went to kicked ass because I grew up in an affluent suburb. The school in Brooklyn where I teach is struggling because of a million reasons, almost none of them having to do with the union.
Everyone whines that teachers are allowed to teach FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIVES. Almost every teacher has a Masters Degree and extensive student teaching experience. They are CERTIFIED by the state. Shockingly, after all of that, they are allowed to work in awful conditions for little pay until they are too old to go on, too tired, or both.
The teachers' union protects us from the moronic whims of the revolving cast of local, state, and national politicians and the unscientific educational boondoggles they repeatedly foist on our students.
I'm about to dump my mountain of Apple gear in the Gowanus Canal if Steve Jobs doesn't apologize to every hard-working teacher in America (or at least carefully recycle it).
No more Apples for the teachers! Apologize now!
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halhiker said 12:32PM on 2-18-2007
I wonder how many teachers get backdated stock options.
I love Apple's products and own the stock--which I paid for--but SJ is way off base here. Maybe he should go back to college and become a teacher and see how it really is. Plus, SJ knows he was talking to administrators, who order computers and have time to go to BS seminars like this to hear college dropouts talk crap, and not teachers who can't order anything. He won't lose any business here.
And do you think it's easy to get rid of incompetent people in private business? I work for a major corporation and we tried for YEARS to get rid of the worst supervisor any one could ever have. It took five years of complaining before this little hitler was made to step down. In that time we had several good workers leave because they couldn't deal with him any more. Plus, anytime we got a new general manager a legion of good workers were shuttled off because he had his own guys he wanted to install. Everyone says we should follow the business model in school and government but that would only cost more. Could you imagine having to pay CEO salaries to your government workers? Cabinets secretaries would be making $240 million a year plus bonuses and teachers would need food stamps. Business is about making money; government is--or should be--about serving the people.
And regarding the unions and the auto industry, PLEASE. The problems in the auto industry have to do with Detroit not building a car people want. When Bush started his war and gas prices soared, people didn't want SUV's and American auto execs were too busy going to cocktail parties to see it. Don't blame the workers; blame those idiots who make the decisions. And don't blame the teachers if you're unhappy with schools; point a finger at the administration.
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pHfactor said 12:53PM on 2-18-2007
I'm sorry to read about Mr. Jobs' comments. By laying all the problems at the unions' feet, he is doing nothing to contribute to the debate. We've all heard this one before.
The problems with our schools are complex, and while the desire for and easy target to point our fingers at is strong (human nature, I'd say), we won't solve these problems with more of the same.
I've been involved in K-12 education as both a parent and a classified employee in California (technology department, of course). I don't have THE answer, but while unions must be involved with the solutions, they are by no means the source of all the problems.
The shortest answer I can come up with is twofold. One, public school is a very large institutional organization and suffers from the ills of any such company. Two, the system is funded and structured through political processes. This means that the ultimate 'good' in the minds of those in charge is to look good to their constituents, and to get re-elected. This is not quite the same goal as educating our kids. Market solutions are just as suspect, since their ultimate 'good' is profit. Not a bad thing, it's just important to keep in mind.
Solutions start with us. Who's on your school board? If you don't know, you have just discovered one of the many small problems that have to be solved to improve our education system.
Mr. Jobs, by his remarks, has only helped us to discover his ignorance.
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Paul said 1:08PM on 2-18-2007
SJ is way off base here. It is so much simpler for everyone to blame the government, teachers, etc than to address the real problem. Put the blame where most of it belongs - at the hands of the parents.
I wasnt a teacher but I worked in a inner city public school as a liason for 8 years. I saw teachers that would go to the parents' home and clean it up just so the kids had a decent place to sleep.
When kids come to school hungry, underfed, with no sleep you have a problem. When there isn't a father in the home (as is so often the case in the inner city) there is a problem. When mom sell drugs and hides the crack cocaine in the baby's diaper there is a problem. When mom is always drunk or passed out there is a problem.
The last I checked the parent is the primary educator (at least in my family).
You can get rid of the unions and throw as much money at the public school as you like, but until you actually look at the root of the problem none of that will matter.
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xVariable said 1:49PM on 2-18-2007
Bill (#11) said: "The Teachers Union is one the largest threats to this county."
You heard it folks: unions are one of the single largest threats to this country. NOT the consolidation of wealth. NOT the neocon War On Terror. NOT the destruction of democracy at the hands of The Corporation. NOT the rise of fundamentalism and fascism in America.
Unions. Unions are a singular primary threat to America.
This is how these monsters think. The frightening thing is they have the resources at their disposal to make their ideas a reality. This comment is not another rallying cry. Nothing I say here is going to make you take action NOW. Just keep in mind that the day is comming when we MUST become militant. They are absolutists and so one day will we necessarily be.
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sam said 2:01PM on 2-18-2007
How about that Iraq war eh? Maybe we'd have more money for education reform if we didn't blow so much money on blowing people up.
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aleks said 2:07PM on 2-18-2007
Paul. well said. This is the major prblem, but still not the only one. But the most important to address, nonetheless.
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