If there's a market share that Apple are likely to capture, it'll be IE's, not Firefox's.

Firefox's users are invariably used to the extensions, themes, and so forth, that it has, whereas IE's users wouldn't miss their absence.

(Yes, I know about Safari's limited add-ons: I'm a paid-up user of Saft, but there's nothing like Firebug, to pick the first example that comes to mind)

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Safari isn't trying to take Firefox's share. They are trying to get in on IE's share. That's why there is no Firefox in the chart.

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Given Safari for Windows' quality, I don't think Mozilla has *anything* to worry about. Plus, Mozilla has an email and calendar client for Windows, and Apple does not.

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What's the problem? If Firefox is better than Safari, then they have nothing to worry about. If they aren't then Safari SHOULD take over their market.

That's the way it works.

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This is not a valid worry...and here's why...

Apple knows that web users like you and I are going to use whatever browser we are most comfortable with. The slide was part of a wishful thinking plot line by Steve and a room full of developers. Not that it's a bad thing but don't blow it out of proportion. We will all get along fine if we continue to use the browser we are most comfortable with and if Safari catches on with the IE crowd or even the Firefox crowd, so be it...and Steve will have lost no sleep over it.

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Safari is awesome. I love it. But not all the websites work with it. I can't watch CNN and other sites with video. Of course youtube works great and other flash based ones work well too. Firefox, has a ton of plugins so does IE. Build the plugins and they will come.

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Yeah, this is really a non issue, I think it was Apple trying to say they want a bigger market share without pissing on MS's fence. Firefox isn't going anywhere, we all know it. I have all three browsers on my Windows partition, and Safari, and Firefox on the the Mac side.

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The speed statistics on Apple's site are a little misleading. They compared the stock Firefox 2 to Safari 3 and Safari 3 won. But when you go to about:config and change some of the settings, Firefox 2 is WAY faster than Safari 3.

This is on a Mac btw. I can't speak for Windows.

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Didn't the previous slide to this have Firefox etc in the chunk that Safari is now occupying?

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I don't think it's anything to worry about. I have a Mac (of course) and I use Firefox over Safari anyway. I just prefer the way Firefox functions.

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When I saw that slide I wasn't thinking about firefox's absence rather IE not use not budging. Firefox has much less to wory about then IE, but how do you say that without P*ssing off MS? Afterall they are the 500 lb Gorilla sitting on the sofa! I think Firefox stays and IE goes.

As to the BETA of Safari having problems, isn't that what a BETA is for, to determine if there are problems. Otherwise it wouldn't be BETA. One more time for those hard of hearing "BETA"!

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I think everyone is missing the point of the Safari release. Apple released it on Windows to allow for Windows based developers to create pages for the iPhone and have something to test against. I believe this is their true motivation. I also believe that the competition part is just a bonus for Apple and they used it to divert from the fact that they were not releasing an SDK for the iPhone. I guess you could say that Safari for Windows is their SDK or at least the test platform for the iPhone.

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i think safari is not a threat to FF if FF continues to improve. in fact, i think safari going to windows is actually good for opensource browsers, because now banks and others will realize there is more than just IE and FF out there. safari on windows is a good thing for standards compliant browsers of all kinds: camino, opera, omniweb, etc

(i use FF and safari)

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Jobs is talking to a room full of MAC developers (some of whom may also develop FF extensions/plugins).

What the hell do you expect him to say Lilly!? "Hmmm... I think we'll just keep plodding along in fourth place. Yeah. That sounds peachy. Let's settle for that."

Absolutely he's gunning for your share. And Camino's. And Opera's. Etc. Gird your loins girlie man. He's hunting for your lunch.

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@YodaMac "That's the way it works."

If that was the way it worked, then FireFox would reign supreme in the Windows world.

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I noticed the exact same thing when I watched it. I honestly was a little horrified. Why eliminate Mozilla? They've never been portrayed as the bad guys until now.

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I won't argue with Lilly's logic that "careless” and “accidental" aren't in Steve's vocabulary. However, I think he's reading way too much into the very intentional decision that was made in making that chart. How, exactly, do you say (in a picture), that you want to take away from IE's market share...and avoid displaying other competitors' names? I mean, if Apple wants to put the spotlight on Safari, why in hell would they list Firefox and "other" on the chart?

Maybe I'm susceptible to the ever-present RDF, but I don't think Lilly's right. I know Apple doesn't want Firefox to go away. And I'm absolutely certain they want Safari to steal some market share from Firefox. But uh...Lilly would be lying if he said Mozilla doesn't want users to switch from Safari to Firefox.

Competition is good for everyone, Mozilla knows it, and Apple knows it. Lack of competition isn't what anyone wants, except perhaps Microsoft.

And I think CommonSince makes a very valid point above.

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I think Apple is just looking for Market Share, whomever it may be: IE, FF, Opera.

The reason I think the chart shows Safari taking over FF and the "Other browsers" is because the way the chart was designed. I clockwise order things went IE (78%) FF (15%) Safari (5%) Other (2%) So it was just easier visually (Safari being in the middle) to take over FF and the Other- so that it looks more significant.

I do think Safari will take FF market share, but not by a lot. I think it has the potential to take more of IE's hare.

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Oh and I'm still curious why Steve chose Stainless Steel and Wood- and why for IE and Safari respectively?

I would think Stainless looks strong and powerful and could crush wood- that just looks like IE is gonna kill safari - which won't happen

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When Steve said he wanted to increase browser market share, I was hoping it was by courting the Mac users on Firefox back to Safari with a feature similar to FF's extensions. Windows was the farthest thing from my mind. I know they have their reasons with the iPhone, but what I care more about is using a Mac and having a browser that feels and works like a Mac application. I use FF because there are some extensions I have to have, and it's more compatible with some sites I visit, but I hate it. It's like using a Windows app. I would love for Safari to become a browser I want to use on my Mac. I think it's sad that it's not my browser of choice.

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