Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Software, Internet Tools, Apple
Is Apple aiming at Firefox?
John Lilly, COO of Mozilla, has a bone to pick with Steve Jobs and Apple. As you might imagine, John keeps an eye on the browser market space, and he was interested to see Apple port Safari to Windows. This was a big deal, but the slide above had John worried. As you can see the pie chart shows Internet Explorer's market share and what Apple would like Safari's market share to be. Notice anything?
That's right, Firefox is no where to be found. John Lilly argues that this wasn't an oversight on Apple's part, but rather a glimpse into their intentions. They want Firefox users to switch to Safari and have the web controlled by 2 dominant products coded by the two dominant OS makers. John seems to think this would be a bad thing, and I agree with him. Having a choice of browsers is good for the web, and good for people who use the web (like you!). As John points out, Safari for Windows is a good thing since it offers uses another choice, but if Apple hopes to use Safari to stifle competition... well that's not very good at all.
What do you all think? Is this a paranoid dream, or a valid worry?
[via CNET]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Mo said 4:04PM on 6-18-2007
If there's a market share that Apple are likely to capture, it'll be IE's, not Firefox's.
Firefox's users are invariably used to the extensions, themes, and so forth, that it has, whereas IE's users wouldn't miss their absence.
(Yes, I know about Safari's limited add-ons: I'm a paid-up user of Saft, but there's nothing like Firebug, to pick the first example that comes to mind)
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Johnny Thrash said 4:06PM on 6-18-2007
Safari isn't trying to take Firefox's share. They are trying to get in on IE's share. That's why there is no Firefox in the chart.
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joe said 4:07PM on 6-18-2007
Given Safari for Windows' quality, I don't think Mozilla has *anything* to worry about. Plus, Mozilla has an email and calendar client for Windows, and Apple does not.
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YodaMac said 4:08PM on 6-18-2007
What's the problem? If Firefox is better than Safari, then they have nothing to worry about. If they aren't then Safari SHOULD take over their market.
That's the way it works.
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Matt said 4:14PM on 6-18-2007
This is not a valid worry...and here's why...
Apple knows that web users like you and I are going to use whatever browser we are most comfortable with. The slide was part of a wishful thinking plot line by Steve and a room full of developers. Not that it's a bad thing but don't blow it out of proportion. We will all get along fine if we continue to use the browser we are most comfortable with and if Safari catches on with the IE crowd or even the Firefox crowd, so be it...and Steve will have lost no sleep over it.
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WillGonz said 4:19PM on 6-18-2007
Safari is awesome. I love it. But not all the websites work with it. I can't watch CNN and other sites with video. Of course youtube works great and other flash based ones work well too. Firefox, has a ton of plugins so does IE. Build the plugins and they will come.
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jdragz said 4:26PM on 6-18-2007
I don't think it's anything to worry about. I have a Mac (of course) and I use Firefox over Safari anyway. I just prefer the way Firefox functions.
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Fred said 4:23PM on 6-18-2007
Yeah, this is really a non issue, I think it was Apple trying to say they want a bigger market share without pissing on MS's fence. Firefox isn't going anywhere, we all know it. I have all three browsers on my Windows partition, and Safari, and Firefox on the the Mac side.
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Jon said 4:24PM on 6-18-2007
The speed statistics on Apple's site are a little misleading. They compared the stock Firefox 2 to Safari 3 and Safari 3 won. But when you go to about:config and change some of the settings, Firefox 2 is WAY faster than Safari 3.
This is on a Mac btw. I can't speak for Windows.
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nosebag said 4:24PM on 6-18-2007
Didn't the previous slide to this have Firefox etc in the chunk that Safari is now occupying?
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iJavaJoe said 4:27PM on 6-18-2007
When I saw that slide I wasn't thinking about firefox's absence rather IE not use not budging. Firefox has much less to wory about then IE, but how do you say that without P*ssing off MS? Afterall they are the 500 lb Gorilla sitting on the sofa! I think Firefox stays and IE goes.
As to the BETA of Safari having problems, isn't that what a BETA is for, to determine if there are problems. Otherwise it wouldn't be BETA. One more time for those hard of hearing "BETA"!
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CommonSince said 4:31PM on 6-18-2007
I think everyone is missing the point of the Safari release. Apple released it on Windows to allow for Windows based developers to create pages for the iPhone and have something to test against. I believe this is their true motivation. I also believe that the competition part is just a bonus for Apple and they used it to divert from the fact that they were not releasing an SDK for the iPhone. I guess you could say that Safari for Windows is their SDK or at least the test platform for the iPhone.
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joe in oklahoma said 4:40PM on 6-18-2007
i think safari is not a threat to FF if FF continues to improve. in fact, i think safari going to windows is actually good for opensource browsers, because now banks and others will realize there is more than just IE and FF out there. safari on windows is a good thing for standards compliant browsers of all kinds: camino, opera, omniweb, etc
(i use FF and safari)
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Gerald Buckley said 4:50PM on 6-18-2007
Jobs is talking to a room full of MAC developers (some of whom may also develop FF extensions/plugins).
What the hell do you expect him to say Lilly!? "Hmmm... I think we'll just keep plodding along in fourth place. Yeah. That sounds peachy. Let's settle for that."
Absolutely he's gunning for your share. And Camino's. And Opera's. Etc. Gird your loins girlie man. He's hunting for your lunch.
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Simon Arch said 4:55PM on 6-18-2007
@YodaMac "That's the way it works."
If that was the way it worked, then FireFox would reign supreme in the Windows world.
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doublem9876 said 5:04PM on 6-18-2007
I noticed the exact same thing when I watched it. I honestly was a little horrified. Why eliminate Mozilla? They've never been portrayed as the bad guys until now.
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punkassjim said 5:06PM on 6-18-2007
I won't argue with Lilly's logic that "careless” and “accidental" aren't in Steve's vocabulary. However, I think he's reading way too much into the very intentional decision that was made in making that chart. How, exactly, do you say (in a picture), that you want to take away from IE's market share...and avoid displaying other competitors' names? I mean, if Apple wants to put the spotlight on Safari, why in hell would they list Firefox and "other" on the chart?
Maybe I'm susceptible to the ever-present RDF, but I don't think Lilly's right. I know Apple doesn't want Firefox to go away. And I'm absolutely certain they want Safari to steal some market share from Firefox. But uh...Lilly would be lying if he said Mozilla doesn't want users to switch from Safari to Firefox.
Competition is good for everyone, Mozilla knows it, and Apple knows it. Lack of competition isn't what anyone wants, except perhaps Microsoft.
And I think CommonSince makes a very valid point above.
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Duscrom said 5:27PM on 6-18-2007
Apple afraid to step on MS's toes? Are you serious... you mean "Redmond get your photocopiers ready" Apple Inc. Afradi to piss off Microsoft? Despite the fact that there is no IE on Mac...
So i want to know this... How WOULD Apple use Safari to stifle out compitition? I mean, Safari is already the default web browser on all macs. THey aren't going to convince MS to let safari be built into Vista.. No, they are going to fight in tbe browser space the exact same way Firefox is.
Does FF have anything to worry about? Sure, if they are afraid of compitition. But most of the time the people who are still using IE are not the people who are going to download a new browser.. so these are customers are unlikely to switch. 2nd Steve isn't an idiot. I heknows he can't go for #1, so damn right Safari would go for #2.
Jeez, between this and Google's whineing, why are CEOs now little babies.
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Cycomachead said 5:14PM on 6-18-2007
I think Apple is just looking for Market Share, whomever it may be: IE, FF, Opera.
The reason I think the chart shows Safari taking over FF and the "Other browsers" is because the way the chart was designed. I clockwise order things went IE (78%) FF (15%) Safari (5%) Other (2%) So it was just easier visually (Safari being in the middle) to take over FF and the Other- so that it looks more significant.
I do think Safari will take FF market share, but not by a lot. I think it has the potential to take more of IE's hare.
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Cycomachead said 5:15PM on 6-18-2007
Oh and I'm still curious why Steve chose Stainless Steel and Wood- and why for IE and Safari respectively?
I would think Stainless looks strong and powerful and could crush wood- that just looks like IE is gonna kill safari - which won't happen
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