Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Hardware
Apple's call to ARM
Computerworld's Seth Weintraub speculates that Apple will choose ARM processors for a rumored upcoming tablet or netbook, versus an Intel processor of the same caliber.
He cites several reasons, including the acquisition of PA Semi, cost, size, and power efficiency as evidence of the likelihood that Apple will use an ARM processor over an Intel one. ARM processors, he argues, are getting powerful enough to rival their Intel counterparts as Intel chips become more efficient to rival their ARM counterparts.
Weintraub spoke with Bob Morris, director of platform enablement for ARM's mobile processor group, who said that two ARM-powered netbooks will hit store shelves in 2009, both probably running the Android operating system.
Since we know OS X already works with the ARM architecture, it raises the question: What will this device be, a netbook or a tablet? Analyst Ezra Gottheil from Technology Business Research says Apple can't afford to ignore consumer clamor for dropping prices, and expects Apple to release a $600 netbook in the first half of next year. We'll see.
How about you? What would you prefer? Take our poll in the 2nd half of this post.
[Via MacDailyNews and O'Grady's PowerPage.]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Brett said 3:31PM on 12-08-2008
Well if they are processor based what would be the hurt in running os x. Why make something that wedges between an iPhone and a MacBook Air boggles the hell out of me though. Being able to do more with less is better but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of a notebook that can slide into a letter envelope? :P
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James said 3:45PM on 12-08-2008
I wonder what that would do with Bootcamp/Parallels booting. Can Windows, et. al. run on ARM? Being able to work with both(many) OSes is a major selling point for Apple.
This is why I doubt we will see a notebook/netbook type of system but probably an LTE compatible Newton(esque) device with slightly bigger than iPod/iPhone form factor.
James
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Jon said 3:45PM on 12-08-2008
What is the difference between an iPhone OS tablet and a Mac OS tablet? They are both Mac OS.
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Jon said 3:57PM on 12-08-2008
While I do sincerely hope this is true for several reasons:
1. ARM instruction set rocks, compares to the clunky, broken, power hungry, aging, patched, carpel tunnel that is x86.
2. Multiple manufactures make ARM chips, no competition-choking cartels and monopolies like Intel. Patents are licensable for reasonable royalties. (Try getting various x86 patents from Intel without going broke!)
It's probably not because:
1. Apple doesn't like tablets if I remember right... Steve Jobs I think said something about not having a niche.
2. A 3rd cpu architecture? Are you joking? While the Universal Binary format could already support x86/ppc/arm, I don't Apple want to fragment their user-base.
I think we'd be more likely to see an ARM based mac-mini.
Luigi193 said 3:48PM on 12-08-2008
I was waiting for someone to use that call to ARM pun...
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Zeke said 3:52PM on 12-08-2008
PA Semi also had lots of experience with PowerPC - both that and ARM are very successful RISC architectures instead of the Intel CISC stuff with antiquated x86 instructions designed more for desktop systems. It certainly wouldn't be a huge jump for Apple since they've ported iPhone OS to ARM and still have the full OS X desktop supporting PowerPC.
Right before the Apple switch to Intel processors, they were gearing up to put a G5 derivative by PA Semi into an Apple notebook. They backed out and ditched PowerPC altogether for a big reason: Performance per watt. Intel's stuff was more efficient than the IBM/Motorola PowerPC chips. PA Semi's new chip, which didn't make it into a mac, was actually more power efficient than the Core Duo chips of the time.
So I think it's going to come down to which chips give the best performance at low power. Apple will not compromise on performance, so whatever they choose will have to perform. My money's on Atom, unless they have a super-low-voltage PowerPC up their sleeves.
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takio said 3:52PM on 12-08-2008
MacBook Mini!
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wako said 3:53PM on 12-08-2008
quite honestly i dont care what CPU is inside a netbook. first one that comes with a dual core CPU in a netbook wins my cash.
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Itchy Pajamas said 3:53PM on 12-08-2008
If Apple came up with a Netbook, I'd compare it with my MacBook Air before purchasing. It would have to offer some usability benefit. The low price alone wouldn't interest me, since I already have the Air.
Now an OS X tablet: That would definitely draw my wallet out of my pocket. It would have to be about as portable as the Air, the the tablet features would have to be far more reliable and usable than those of my Toshiba Portege. I think I can count on Apple to come trhough there. Well spec'ed, I'd go $3k for the tablet -- about the same as my current MacBook Pro and my 1st-gen MacBook Air.
Oh, and whatever the new device is, matte screen, please. :-)
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Gp said 3:54PM on 12-08-2008
Doesn't make much sense to me. Creating a full-featured ARM-based netbook based on OS X would mean that all OS X applications would need to run in emulation or be recompiled/retested. That's just not practical.
Which then leaves "a big-assed iPod touch" since it is based on the same chipset. But then you got applications that are improperly designed for a larger screen.
The third option would be a new operating system built for netbooks. But that is now spreading apple too thin. I think these rumors need to be re-evaluated.
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Mike O said 3:56PM on 12-08-2008
I say Nay Nay to an ARM-based Apple NetBook. Here's why:
1) People will expect a full fledged Mac with limited performance and they wouldn't bet getting that since standard Mac software won't run on ARM.
2) Developers would need to create ARM versions of their apps or create all new ones for the device.
3) The change in aspect ratio means iPhone/iTouch apps won't run on it.
Add those up, and you'll see that the idea of an ARM-based NetBook makes no sense.
An OS X-based NetBook running on Atom is a possibility, though I doubt many people would want a Mac just to browse the web.
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takio said 4:08PM on 12-08-2008
do you have any idea hou many people buy a mac to do little more that browse the web?
remember that in any time of crysis, the "missing money" is going somewhere... usually the same place as always - the people who already have it. and Apple is one of the companies that caters that wealthy fringe. The Air is the perfect example of this: crap performance for top-dollar... pure bling. Weight argument is BS if you need to get work done, so... back to my point. You pay more for something as light as awesomeless.
Cheaper OSX Netbook would be a smash hit, and it's a matter of time really... like cars, they keep growing and then they have to create a new "lower range"... this market is here to stay and Apple will be late to the party but will still get is right somehow and steal all the thunder. Few will remember how Asus kickstarted the whole thing.
Brett said 4:01PM on 12-08-2008
I'm no MIT grad or programmer by any means but I believe Mac OS X is based on cocoa scripting or it's integrated somehow. The iPhone is made by Apple so of course they are going to dub the OS on the phone "Mac OS X". If they called it anything else they may as well say it's running XP. Safari on an iPhone is like VW to Audi. It shares the same manufacturing as it's big brother and made by the same people. The iPhone OS is a beautiful thing but when I look at it do I think of Leopard? No. If Apple releases a tablet or netbook I would like to see it share the same architecture as that of a desktop Mac. No?
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Michael Rose said 4:42PM on 12-08-2008
"so of course they are going to dub the OS on the phone "Mac OS X"
This is in fact something Apple is very careful NOT to do. The iPhone OS is noted as "OS X," not Mac OS X. It's a shared core of some APIs and frameworks but they are not the same system.
EMoShunz said 4:08PM on 12-08-2008
os x is now basically 2 separate architectures (with the speculation snow leopard is dropping ppc) desktop, and ipod touch/iphone. so, if it is a tablet/mini running arm, it will basically limit it to app store apps.
this sucks, because the main reason i'd buy a tablet would be for a discrete and easy way to control audio on stage (garageband/logic/native instruments stuff).
so, for it to be arm, it'd be pretty crippled unless the price was really right, and small enough for factor that i'd buy it instead of a touch.
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Greg said 4:16PM on 12-08-2008
ARM will be used for new chips for iPhone and iPod models. Hell will freeze over before we see a netbook or tablet. Margins on netbooks are too small, while tablets are a niche market.
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Jamus said 4:16PM on 12-08-2008
I would hate to see it cripple the rise in developers we have seen since the Intel chips came in. Otherwise it seems slick for a mobile device.
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zomgkas said 4:47PM on 12-08-2008
in kernel debug tools for 10a190, there is was arm kernel too .
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Josh Burks said 4:48PM on 12-08-2008
my oblivious guess is that if Apple were to incorporate ANOTHER processor type, one that doesnt overlap functionality, it would have to be for an entirely alternate OS, or not for an OS at all. What use would it be to rebuild OS X when Snow leopard is on the way and the Macintosh is maturing so well. this sounds like to me like the guts to future products, whatever they may be.
we know new versions of the iPhone are bound to come out, and more players, possibly game systems, who knows. So, abandoning the the current iPhone OS for future phones or whatever, while leaving the now iPhone and Mac OS's intact seems the most logical next step. maybe we will start seeing more in depth OS's in different gadgets, or personally i'm crossing my fingers for some sort of gaming masterpiece i know the good folks at Apple are capable of.
Let's face it, the days where a phone or MP3 player had a simple on/off play/pause concept behind the screen are over. Holographics are becoming less and less a thing of the future and more a thing in progress. there's no telling what the future holds for an innovative as a company as Apple is. im betting we will start to see products with processors solely devoted to user input. we started with CPUs, and then GPUs, as touch interfaces and 3d mapping are integrated why wouldn't there eventually be the need for a UserPU or InputPU or whatever. Maybe ARM will not be used in place of, but in conjunction with Intel.
this ended up being a much longer post than i was anticipating...
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glad said 6:12PM on 12-08-2008
haven't you heard netbooks are so yesterday, iPhone and other smartphones will beat them up in 2009, why because you can put them in your pocket.
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