Filed under: iPhone, Jailbreak/pwnage
An iPhone on Verizon in 2010? With LTE, it could happen
Now, I understand this may be a very niche subject for our dear readership, but as many of you may remember, I'm a Verizon customer. That's why this morning's news about Verizon testing its Long-Term Evolution 3GPP (LTE) service in various parts of the U.S. has me excited.
Yes, while it's amazing that Verizon is getting 60Mbps downloads using LTE in Columbus, Minneapolis, and northern New Jersey, what's exciting to me is the fact that LTE plays nicely with GSM. If you could use a GSM phone on the Verizon network -- I think you can see where I'm going with this -- you might be able to use an iPhone with Verizon service.
While it's true that Apple and AT&T have an exclusivity agreement with each other, Verizon and Apple have previously used two completely separate kinds of technology (CDMA versus GSM, respectively) -- preventing any kind of interoperability. With Verizon at least speaking the same language as iPhone handsets, the possibility of keeping my carrier and having my dream handset comes closer.
In theory, at least; it isn't as easy as flipping as switch. If it works anything like, say, the procedure for using your iPhone with T-Mobile here in the U.S., it requires unlocking the phone with QuickPwn or yellowsn0w. Apple has recently suggested that it considers jailbreaking iPhones to be a violation of DMCA. Interpreted broadly, that may include unlocking software, too.
Add to that some SIM cards that don't work with unlocking software, like some from T-Mobile. There's nothing suggesting that Verizon's new LTE SIM cards will work right out of the box. Even if they are, advanced features like Visual Voicemail won't be available, but that's something I can live without.
For me personally, I wouldn't mind either an iPhone or a Palm Pre. Maybe it's just a waiting game to see whose exclusivity agreement expires first, rather than trying to hack something together.
Then again, maybe I shouldn't get my hopes up. We've still got another year to wait before Verizon rolls out LTE service to most of the country.
[Via Electronista.]
Update: Commenters Andrew and Shane made a good point that I failed to grasp when I wrote this: Verizon's LTE implementation will not necessarily mean that GSM phones will work on Verizon's LTE network. LTE works like this: If you have an LTE chipset in your phone, awesome. If you don't, your phone will fall back to the network's prior 3G technology. In Verizon's case, that's still CDMA, which the iPhone doesn't support. Now, if Apple were to build in LTE support into their next round of iPhones (in anticipation of AT&T's adoption of the standard in 2011) there might be a chance this will still work, but that's a lot of ifs. Thanks, guys!
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dima said 1:46PM on 2-18-2009
while i would love to see an iphone available on verizon (im a current vzw subscriber), i think my patience might not make it quite long enough. I'm pretty sure an iphone refresh this summer would tip the scales to have me jumping ship.
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Murphy Mac said 2:52PM on 2-18-2009
That's exactly where I am. I'm satisfied with Verizon - and most of the people I talk to are on Verizon - so I'm not wild about leaving them for AT&T. But I've waited long enough to get an iPhone. My contract is up in April so I'll be waiting for news of a refresh or new model iPhone, and then switching.
Tom said 1:49PM on 2-18-2009
You don't need to Jailbreak. Unlocked phones are sold over the counter by Apple partners in several countries all over the world. Just get your iPhone from Italy for €499/€569.
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ShaneD said 4:44PM on 2-18-2009
Just because you get a unlocked iphone in Italy or some other country doesn't mean it will work on other US carriers. US carriers are not like the rest of the world. Each one has a different frequency band they transmit on. In other countries they all use the same frequency.
So a unlocked iphone from Europe still will not work on Verizon or Sprint (they use CDMA networks, not GSM) and tmobile USA uses the 1700 mhz band for it's 3G, which the iphone does not have.
So an unlocked iphone in Europe is sweet, but in the US it is pretty pointless... unless you like using tmobile's slow Edge network, because that's the only network other than AT&T's that the iphone can run on here.
Tom said 6:07PM on 2-18-2009
Shane,
I'm aware of the difference between GSM and CDMA. Robert wrote "using your iPhone with T-Mobile here in the U.S. [...] requires unlocking the phone with QuickPwn or yellowsn0w" and he expressed his hope that LTE would align Verizon closer with GSM at some time in the future. My comment was directed to those statements. If all you want is an iPhone for your GSM provider of choice, unlocking is not necessary anymore, because there are "never-locked" iPhones on the world market.
Andrew Ruess said 1:53PM on 2-18-2009
LTE is a different wireless transmission standard... separate from both CDMA and GSM. LTE is endorsed by the GSM coalition, but LTE still requires its own chipsets and radios. And LTE is now the chosen 4G technology for AT&T, T-mobile, and Verizon, but its not like any existing phones will be able to talk to LTE without a LTE chip built into them. Much like a 2G GSM flip-phone does not suddenly become 3G (HSDPA) capable unless it has a HSDPA chip inside.
An iPhone in 2010 will not work on Verizon unless Apple is putting in an LTE chip for the AT&T 2011 LTE network launch... which probably won't happen until 2011 or later.
Or the iPhone exclusive deal with AT&T could end... =)
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Squid7085 said 2:15PM on 2-18-2009
Thank You for setting this straight! It's getting old hearing that "Verizon is going to GSM" no they aren't. The only reference to GSM is that it is part of the progression path. AT&T will have a fallback on UMTS, verizon will fall back on EV-DO. It's not even set in stone that Verizon will use SIM cards yet.
Matthew Reid said 12:33PM on 2-19-2009
Andrew Ruess i have to disagree with u and everybody else that says an lte iphone by at&t (If the still are exclusive to at&t) will work for verizon's network or t-mobile's. if you remember the auction for the 700 mhz analog spectrum verizon bought the C_block and at&t bought the B_block. if you dont kno the significance of that then i'll explain. the c-block came with he most space of coverage or w.e but it had a restriction and dat was that the network could not be private and what this meant for verizon is that since they boutgh this block their network would be public and this meant that the would have no exclusive deals with phone makers like the exclusive deal between apple and at&t. however, as for at&t, since they bought the b-block which was a smaller block to buy (They also bought some c-block spectrum from aloha) they have no restrictions on their purchase and are able to keep a private network meaning they will still be able to have exclusive deals just like they do now.
Andrew Ruess said 12:56PM on 2-19-2009
Matthew Reid, what you said is correct, but separate from the correct I was making to the original article. My point was that Verizon LTE does not bring GSM/GPSR/EDGE/HSDPA/HSUPA or any other GSM technologies to Verizon. It only brings LTE to Verizon.
If an iPhone (or any phone for that matter) does not have have an LTE chip built-in, it will not talk to any LTE network. Period.
Additionally, just because AT&T and Verizon will be using the same network technology on the same 700Mhz frequency does not mean roaming will necessarily be allowed. That is a contract AT&T & Verizon will have to make.
If an iPhone has an LTE chip built-in it and is still exclusive to AT&T... it will not work on Verizon. There might or might not be unlocking software available for the future iPhone version, and Apple could even design the software on the American iPhone to only talk to AT&T DNS servers.
Until the iPhone is an open, unlocked phone in the States, there will not be a good, reliable way to use it with another network beyond AT&T.
But I am glad the 700Mhz auction required open access to software and hardware. If I want to go and buy an LTE-compatible Android device from any retailers in a few years I can put it on Verizon's network and not have to sign a contract. Win-win for consumers.
koppah said 2:16PM on 2-18-2009
Just to be clear, you don't unlock with QuickPwn OR yellowsn0w - you need to jailbreak with either QuickPwn or Pwnage Tool and THEN unlock with yellowsn0w
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Zombie Flanders said 2:27PM on 2-18-2009
Please, please, please let this happen! AT&T and my iPhone are now in a crapulous infinite loop where I get maybe 2 bars of 3G, and so you go to open a page, and the little wheel spins, the 3G reverts to edge, the wheel spins more, then it goes back to 3G. Then the wheel spins, the phone goes to EDGE, and back again and again. The problem is, the dumbass phone never downloads my email or the web page I'm trying to go to, instead you get stuck in this infinite loop of antenna switching that is retarded and retarded!
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bigdilvey said 2:34PM on 2-18-2009
Just turn off your 3g radio when that's happening. Edge is slower, but at least it will stop the "infinite loop" and you'll have some extra power savings.
Zombie Flanders said 3:53PM on 2-18-2009
No, because before the last firmware update, 3G worked just fine at my desk. Now it doesn't. I pay for 3G and the Chicago Loop should not be an area where this signal is weak. I sit by the window and have had 2-3 bars consistently the entire time (used to stream Pandora all day at work with 2-3 pauses the entire day).
This infinite antenna switching stuff has been happening very recently. Besides, why did I upgrade to the 3G if I'm not going to be able to use it? I mean, I get that there are areas where coverage is better than others, etc. but downtown Chicago should NOT be one of them! Granted, I lose all signal the farther in the building I go, and that is to be expected. But having the phone operate under one behavior and all of a sudden having it act this way is just wrong.
Unknown said 2:55PM on 2-18-2009
This would be a dream come true. The iPhone is too good to leave ATT - but when it ports to Verizon (if ever) I'm leaving them in a heartbeat.
I'm currently in an abusive co-dependent relationship with ATT and iphone - my wife wants to throw it our the window as it's too unreliable to reach me on the first try (live in SF Bay where it sucks). I now find myself lying when my calls inevitably drop or I can't be reach: "I didn't have the bluetooth on and there was a cop behind me...so I couldn't answer." or "I had the ringer off bc I was in a meeting." etc
I can't wait to be free.
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theoneneo81 said 3:34PM on 2-18-2009
this would be most excelent my phone upgrade would just be up by 2010 and i belie if this out i will deffintly get a iphone
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Ry said 4:05PM on 2-18-2009
Isn't Verizon's LTE running on their recently acquired 700 MHz spectrum? A band that the current iPhone doesn't support?
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ShaneD said 4:25PM on 2-18-2009
Yes, which is why this won't work.
Unless AT&T also uses 700mhz for their LTE network, then Apple would come out with a iphone 4G in 2010 that would have the 700 mhz band built in.
But if AT&T uses their existing network bands to roll out LTE, then it's not likely Apple will add Verizon's 700mhz band until after their exclusivity deal expires. That way they can be sure that even if you unlock your iphone it won't run on anyone else's hi speed data network.
It's craziness like this that makes me wish we would standardize our bands like the rest of the world. (standars GSM for every carrier, and 2100mhz for 3G in every other country on the planet except the US. So any unlocked phone works on any network. What a novel concept!)
ShaneD said 4:34PM on 2-18-2009
Incidentally, this is also why a unlocked iphone with tmobile's SIM will run on edge, but not tmobile's new 3G network. Tmobile uses the same bands as AT&T for voice and Edge, but they use 1700mhz for 3G. The iphone doesn't have a 1700mhz band, only the 850 and 1900 bands for AT&T's network, and 900/1800/2100 for the rest of the world.
So the whole world runs on 3 bands... 900 and 1800 for 2G, and 2100 for 3G.
In the US, we have at least 6 bands now for hi speed data alone! (AT&T = 850 & 1900 for 3G; Tmobile = 1700 for 3G; Verizon = EVDO for 3G and 700mhz LTE for 4G; Sprint = EVDO for 3G and WiMax for 4G)
No wonder we're so far behind the rest of the world in mobile communications!
Squid7085 said 8:44PM on 2-18-2009
@ ShaneD
Umm, wha? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? EVDO is not a "Band" We only have four bands in the US.
Verizon = 850/1900 Current Network 2G(cdma2000) and 3G(EVDO).
700 For LTE
AT&T = 850/1900 Current Network 2G(GSM) and 3G(UTMS).
700 For LTE as well.
T-Mobile = 1900 Current GSM Network.
1700 Current UTMS Network
Sprint = 1900 Current 2G(cdma2000) and 3G(EVDO) network.
(As a side note WiMax uses something like 2.5Ghz, its not "technically" a 4G tech.)
There are also some smaller companies running on either 850 or 1900. For example, US Cellular runs quite a bit on 850. A lot of new companies picked up some 700 though with plans to launch a new provider.
Up until recently 850/1900 were it. The FCC allocated the 1700 (AWS) and 700 in the past few years because these carriers were out of spectrum space and for the most part the big two (VZW and AT&T) own most of it.
NickP said 4:35PM on 2-18-2009
There is nothing preventing a GSM user with a SIM card from another network roaming on to Verizon with an LTE device, but the opposite won't be true. Verizon has NO plans to offer a legacy GSM network.
Also, Apple is not yet in a position to make a decision on LTE/4G chipsets as the minimal chipsets out there are in short supply, pricey and are first generation -meaning buggy and power hungry.
I would see Apple doing an LTE device at least one year after we see real networks - if they do one at all that soon. Remember: 3G/UMTS was already in the market 5 years before Apple built the iPhone 3G... LTE is just in its infancy
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