So how much do they make???

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My two experiences with them are clients that were not happy with what the "Genius Bar" staff had to provide.

One was a client who owned a G4 400Mhz with AGP slot who was told by the "Genius", that the nVidia GeForce4 TI AGP card that the "Genius" told them to buy would allow their Mac to use Apple's ADC displays. Nope. They won't. Because those early Sawtooth AGP machines do not have the receptacle for the power stub that is needed for ADC desiplays to work on such setups.

Another was an owner of a B&W G3 who was told that he could "easilly" use Apple's round Apple Pro Speakers with his machine again. Wrong again. Only machines that have the powered speaker port--the plug is smaller--can use them.

Based on those two experiences I really have to say that the Apple Genius Bar staff is on a slightly higher level than the general staff. But they are still geared towards vague/wrong answers and general glad-handling. Another level of sales and not much else.

In contrast, people I know who have gone to local tech stores--like NYC's Tekserve--pretty much have a more positive experience from my experience. I've never had to accompany a disgruntled client to there to deal with an incompatibility issue. Now I've had to do it twice for Apple Store customers who trusted the "Genius" too much.

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I had a bad latch on my TiBook. The "Genius" tried to claim I had abused the TiBook at that this was an "unknown" problem...nevermind that you can find hundreds of people with the same problem with a simple Google search. He quoted me $400 to fix the little latch, so I took my TiBook home and got on the phone to AppleCare (yes, they claimed it wasn't covered by AppleCare!).
The first guy at AppleCare didn't want to help, so I went up the ladder. The next guy acknowledged that, yes, this was a common problem and they'd take care of it under AppleCare. A box was dispatched overnight. I had a fixed TiBook three days later (two of those days were shipping--one each way).
I discovered Apple's strategy. Have the "Genius" stonewall you and demand $400 to fix it, despite your AppleCare. Have the first person on the phone play the same game. If the customer persists, do the right thing.
No, that doesn't make me warm and fuzzy toward Apple--a company that relies on warm and fuzzy.

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You know what I say?

Screw "warm and fuzzy."

I like Apple because its software and hardware kick ass. Sure, Apple is "cool" or whatever, but who cares? I don't give a rat's ass if Apple sues every 10.4 pirate and ThinkRumors site, so long as their products are good. Everything besides the product is pure image, complete hype, smoke and mirrors. We have this really groovy, hippie image of Apple, but if you think about it logically, it's a complete media creation. How is controlling the hardware, OS, and most of the good software for a kind of computer a "cool" thing? If Apple didn't have to compete with Microsoft, it would be screwing us even worse than it is for Mac Mini RAM or iLife '05 (remember when it was free?) or AppleCare or whatever.

Apple is a corporation. Corporations screw people. Apple screws people.

Let's stop being surprised by this and instead ask ourselves one question: "Is it all worth it?"

And when you compare OS X and the garbage that is Windows, there can be only one answer: "Sadly, yes."

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I bought one of the first generation 12-inch Al Powerbooks (and blogged extensively about it; http://3650anda12inch.blogspot.com). During the first weekend of using it, I discovered that it was not only warped, but that it wobbled nicely on any flat surface. I took it to the Apple Store in White Plains, NY and talked with one of their geniuses. I had to wait about 4 hours for them to stick an Airport Express card in a replacement Powerbook. As I was waiting I looked around to find that they had removed some of the feet from certain corners of the 12-inch display models to prevent them from wobbling. Then when they brought the new one out, I insisted on checking it for wobbling. It wobbled too, though not as much, and they said they couldn't replace two in a row! Ridiculous.

Search for "This warping thing" on my old site for more detailed description of the events. I'm still waiting for someone to get together a class action suite against Apple for releasing defective hardware on the masses...

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I have a 15 inch powerbook....10 days after recieving it in the mail (custom order) the superdrive went bad wouldnt take any CD's so i went to the applestore....genius bar and explained my situation....they told me 2 days....i explained how i need to use it for work that night and needed to burn a CD so the sooner they got it to me the better.they said they would try to get it done by closing....considering how i brought it in at 1 and they usually dont start afternoon repairs till the next day i was lucky....they replaced my superdrive in 2 hours and i was back up and running....id say its pretty good

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I went to the Apple Retail Store at the West County Mall last Thursday night, with my Apple Keyboard under arm. I waited for the Genius Bar by attending an iMovie workshop in progress (not much more than an introductory demo of the highlights of iMovie in a show and tell method).

The Genius Bar became available to me within about 20 minutes and I asked the attendant how I could resurrect the keyboard that had some key problems due to a soda spill by my son. I offered that I was just looking for some simple instructions on how to open the keyboard up and clean up the problem, i.e. with some flux off or whatever. The attendant stopped me short and explained that I shouldn't even attempt it and that I should buy a new keyboard as they are only $29. I stated that I knew that was a simple and reasonable alternative to trying to fix it myself, but that I already have a stock pile of old Apple machines in my basement and really don't want to add to the huge environmental problem of old hardware disposal. He brushed off my suggestion and request with the statement that even he doesn't mess around with a keyboard related problem as it is at least a two hour job and not worth the time. I explained that I have a variety of Apple hardware that I often have to do basic repairs and upgrades to and feel comfortable doing so and AM WILLING to take the time to do. He agian brushed off my request for info/advice stating "just get another keyboard" and thus offered no help on how to open the keyboard up and clean it, but sensing my displeasure as I walked away, he quickly offered a web site to give some pointers.

My point is that the Genius Bar seems to be a double edged sword for Apple. It is most definitely a "warm and fuzzy" place for Apple owners to go and get advice and sometimes excellent service when under Apple Care coverage on defects, repairs, upgrades, etc.... It is also and in my experience a targeted extension of the Retail sales force.

My question is "what should we be doing with our old Apple hardware when it is no longer functional or serviceable? that is without mindlessly adding to the enviro problem?"

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Michael (#7),

You can try finding a recyling center that will take old computers/electronics. For California I've found this resource:

http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/Electronics/Collection/

This site has the option to search for facilities outside of California. Probably not the best way to go if you're not in California but a good place to start.

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I couldn't disagree more strongly with the negative comments alleging that the Apple Store Geniuses are a small step above their Best Buy or Circuit City counterparts or the average floor employee. The guys and gals at the Genius Bar are, on the whole, eager to help, patient, extremely well trained, knowledgeable of and passionate about Apple products, and honest. The Geniuses don't try to sell customers unneeded products and services, and contrary to some of the previous comments, they are far more flexible with customers who are directly responsible for their own malfunctioning iPods and computers than one might think.

I personally think that it's fantastic that I can go to the Genius Bar to get help with anything from a hardware problem to learning about particular features of the iLife suite that can best serve my business' needs. Where else can you get that kind of service - largely for free???

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The geniuses might be good wth people who can't figure out their iPods, but in general, I agree with others here that they are just a half-step above the typical floor employee.

Apple employees are a solid step above their Best Buy & Circuit City counterparts, but that just about brings them up to the level of "as smart as you *should* be to work retail" in my mind. The world is a big, complicated place. There's no room for anyone to know everything. Thus, we all must specialize. Every retail worker should know everything there is to know about the products they work with *and* be willing to say when they don't know, and go find the answer in that case. But, consumers demand lower prices, so stores pay less, so the quality of employees declines, and a vicious cycle goes on forever. But I digress...

The most common phrase heard from a genius (Orlando, Tampa, San Francisco) is "I don't know... it shouldn't do that." Overall, I'd consider the "geniuses" be be roughly Level 1... maybe Level 2 tech support. They're decent enough techs but most have not worked with computers in any industry. Any time I go to them with real-world industry-specific questions (printing/color issues, networking, etc.) I get blank stares. Halfway through my question I realize I know more about my problem than they do.

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I have the BEST experience. I have an almost 3 year old iBook that started experiencing the documented video problems and no apple care. In addition to replacing the logic board, they replaced my power adapter that was fraying and a key that was missing on the keyboard.

Oh and the Mac Genius had cool sunglasses.

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I have to say that brian's expentations are UNREALISTIC. He expects them to hire people who have the knowledge that lands them 90 thousand a year. Those people aren't going to work as a genius. The most common phrase is "I don't know" if you ask them things that only someone in that specialized field of computing would know. They aren't HP printer experts and they aren't cisco networking engineers.

Yes I am glad that he noticed Geniuses beat Best Buy. The point I'm trying to make is that NOBODY does a better job with tech support unless you call an expert from that particular company. Apple Geniuses know Apple. So if I had a problem with the dot ratio of an INK cartridge I wouldn't go to the Apple store and ask the genius, I would call the printer manufacturer.

Lets just put it this way. If you are a profressional you need more help then a retail store. Brian is an idiot and its amazing he has such questions because he doesn't have the brains to figure out where to go for help.

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