Filed under: Other Events, Internet Tools, Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs at Apple Town Hall meeting: Harsh words for Google, Adobe
Steve Jobs recently held a Town Hall meeting for Apple employees, and according to Wired, he had some very choice words for both Google and Adobe. While these likely aren't direct, word-for-word quotes, as they come from employees who spoke to Wired and MacRumors on condition of anonymity, if they're even in the ballpark of what Jobs said, Apple's response to both Google and Adobe can be summed up in two words: "Bring it."On Google: "We did not enter the search business. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake: they want to kill the iPhone. We won't let them [...] This don't be evil mantra? It's bullshit."
Snap. Maybe a tad belligerent there at the end, Mr. Jobs? I wonder what brought that on?
On Adobe: "They are lazy. They have all this potential to do interesting things, but they just refuse to do it. They don't do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it's because of Flash. No one will be using Flash. The world is moving to HTML5." Sounds like the petitions can stop now. If that's really what Apple's CEO thinks of Flash, then make no mistake: Flash is never coming to Apple's mobile devices.
Some other tasty tidbits from the Town Hall courtesy of the folks at MacRumors:
- Jobs considers the iPad on a par with the iPhone and Mac as one of the most important products he's worked on
- Apple acquired Lala because they wanted to bring Lala's people to the iTunes team
- The next iPhone is "an A+ update" that Android won't be able to keep up with
- New Macs this year will take Apple "to the next level"
- Apple is still playing "wait and see" with regards to Blu-Ray, and won't implement it until/unless Blu-Ray sales take off
![TUAW [Cafepress]](http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tuaw.com/media/tuaw-cafepress-promo.png)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Rob said 6:05PM on 1-31-2010
The funny thing is (and I'm TOTALLY on Apple's side), Google really hasn't done anything to Apple that Apple didn't do to Motorola. They offered their expertise to Apple's phone project (much like Apple offered iTunes to the ROKR), and used the inside access they had to the inner workings of the phone to help build their own. Kinda brilliant, in a shady sorta way.
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Jordan said 6:15PM on 1-31-2010
How can you possibly be on Apple's side over Google?
If Flash causes problems for Macs (though I've never seen it), then yeah go ahead and be on Apple's side about that, but in what way has Google been crappy on Apple products?
Google wants to provide some competition, and Apple is locking them out of even trying. You can't even use a different browser on the iPhone. How is it legal for Apple to lock you into using their apps when supposedly anybody can write an app for the phone?
Josh Windisch said 6:52PM on 1-31-2010
Apple never had any "do no evil" mantra though. So you can't really hold it against them like you can Google. If Google does any sort of "evil" it goes against what they said they'd never do. I'm not saying being evil is good, but at least Apple isn't hypocritical.
KeynoteKen said 8:17PM on 1-31-2010
"If Flash causes problems for Macs (though I've never seen it)"
If you have a Mac running Safari, try this test. Download and install ClickToFlash and take note of your CPU usage after surfing for about 30 mins. Then, disable ClickToFlash, and do the same. All those little flashies serving ads take up a disproportionate amount of CPU which impacts your browsing experience.
For me, I've actually experienced the crashes (even some instances where the latest version of Safari allows Flash to crash, but keeps running). But, for everyone, this test shows how much of your computer is working JUST to display Flash based advertising.
thefjk said 8:51PM on 1-31-2010
@ Josh: But that's my exact problem... Google hasn't done anything evil. Bringing some competition is good for everyone, Nokia ain't moaning!
Besides they still have support on Apple devices, Steve was like... "isn't that great" when pinching on the Google Maps app with the iPad.
Evil will be Google yanking all apps, services and support on Apple products, and I'll still be in line to buying the next Android. Seriously you can't take companies seriously, mantra or no mantra. It comes down to $$$$!
Oh BTW, Flash needs to go away or just get better (if possible) ?
Noah Ramon said 10:51PM on 1-31-2010
"You can't even use a different browser on the iPhone."
Why do people keep saying this? There's a bunch of web browsers on the App Store. They DID have that limitation, but it's been gone for a while now. (Like, for about a year, give or take.)
mabhatter said 12:06AM on 2-01-2010
I totally agree with the Adobe comments. Their Mac Unit has been lacking for years. Releases that are compatible with new versions of OSX are slower and slower... Flash on Mac is a dog compared to Windows. If Adobe isn't going to polish it for Mac (where Adobe repeatedly got their start) why does Jobs want them on a device. More importantly, Flash for mobile devices isn't FREE like the desktop version (they charge OEMs for it... i.e. OEM pays to make it work and Adobe gets all the tools sales). Adobe has lots of strings attached to their mobile versions and while they'd give Apple a deal (at this point BEG) it's the point of the thing in the first place.
As far as Google, Jobs is getting dangerously paranoid. Google has had OS rumors floating around for ages... it shouldn't have been a surprise. Apple isn't going to license their iPhone anyway. Android is more a threat to Microsoft than Apple. Apple has grown too used to living in Microsoft's shadow as the "sanctioned dissent". Android and WebOS are good for Apple because they provide solid competition, and they have totally tromped on Microsoft being taken seriously... that's Good for Apple. Google is in the AD business. That means they get a nickle every time somebody uses an iPhone service. That Apple/Jobs found that some kind of surprise when Google was so friendly to letting iPhone connect to "everything", shows a severe lack of understanding what game Google is really playing. In response to Google's Android, now Apple is buying up ad agencies... Apple was doing a good job trying to play nice and that peaked about Leopard... now they're headed back to locking everything down "Apple only" again.
Mike said 12:21PM on 2-02-2010
@Noah
Only Apple-provided WebKit-based browsers exist in the AppStore. They are all the *same* browser engine with a slightly different UI.
Apple does not allow 3rd party web-browsers.
Actionable Mango said 1:53PM on 2-01-2010
"You can't even use a different browser on the iPhone." Why do people keep saying this? There's a bunch of web browsers on the App Store.
--I am no expert, but it is my understanding that all of the web browsers on the app store have to use the underlying webkit.
Seth said 6:20PM on 2-02-2010
I've always hated Adobe, but Flash made life a lot easier on users and content providers. Remember when web video was triple-coded into Windows, Quicktime, and (ugh!) RealPlayer formats?
They also provided a much more robust solution for serving video and managing bandwidth.
Jobs also needs to remember that Adobe products were the third-party pillar for Apple computer for years.
Thing is, Jobs is not good at partnerships, which he has admitted in interviews. Its one thing Microsoft does much better. Jobs needs to work *with* Adobe, not be combative. That just results in a mobile safari with a (very popular) broken plugin.
HTML5 will not replace Flash overnight - it doesn't even have browser support in Firefox or IE yet and the players are very bare-boned. There are a lot of content and bandwidth management features with Flash Media Server that HTML 5 doesn't even address.
chaos123x said 6:05PM on 1-31-2010
Like to see what Apple would be like if Google and Adobe stopped supporting Apple products.
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Jordan said 6:11PM on 1-31-2010
Imagine not being able to use Google search on an Apple product. Apple would have to rely on Bing (which is amazing). Who makes Bing again? Oh yeah..
Imagine Adobe pulling Photoshop from Macs. Granted there are enough copies out there to keep it going for a while, but I don't see any Apple program ever taking Photoshop's place.
Nothing's happened yet, but Apple is becoming more arrogant day by day. They need to remember what happened to them before, because if they don't, it WILL happen again.
digitalsedition said 6:22PM on 1-31-2010
Google and Apple really need each other more than either is willing to admit. Google needs to have its services and systems used by all those iPhone users and Apple needs access to all those APIs so developers can build compelling products.
As for Apple and Adobe, that's a much harder one to imagine. Adobe could (in pretend marketplace) dump Apple, but would only create a market for Corel or others to consume the share they had on the device. Apple isn't really hurting from not using Flash and to a large extent, their stubborness is driving some people to take a closer look at HTML5 and its authoring tools. I don't think HTML5 is a Flash replacement, but if Apple continues driving people in that direction in order to support its platforms - eventually a critical mass of developers and designers will develop.
darrell said 9:50PM on 1-31-2010
you make a good point, but the creative market is still small compared to the amount of machines in households today. if flash was pulled off of macs, then it's likely the mac user wouldn't notice. if they couldn't access hulu then they would probably find a source to pirate from. it reminds me of the time before flip4mac, where mac users had no way to watch WindowsMedia 9 videos. we just accepted it and moved on.
as for google - there are other alternatives to it. yahoo mail is still the most used email service and if there were no maps for the iPhone, then apple would simply make their own. i'm not saying mac users would be better off without Flash and Google support, but they would probably just accept it and move on. much like how mac users were late to the party of netflix watch now service, or tivo's slingbox software.
Quinn Taylor said 11:07PM on 1-31-2010
If Adobe were to stop selling Photoshop et al for Mac, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot in a bad way, to put it lightly — they sell a LOT more copies for Mac than for Windows. Cutting off over half of one's market to spite Apple would be idiocy on their part. For one thing, how could the Adobe users on Windows ever be sure the tide wouldn't change? Would you feel at all confident about investing in Adobe software again? I wouldn't...
huth.sebastian said 8:34AM on 2-01-2010
@Jordan: That is just plain ridiculous, Adobe would never pull Photoshop from OS X. If they do, the company that will go down is Adobe, not Apple. Everyone who's serious about design uses PS on a mac, those people wouldn't just go and buy Windows, just so they can run Photoshop legally, they'd crack it or use something else - either way, Adobe will lose a buttload of money.
I can understand that they don't want flash on their iPhones if it doesn't even run properly on a real mac.
Flash is mostly redundant anyways, all it's used for is stupid games (hello Farmville) and annoying ads and video players. HTML5 can do video, so I don't undrstand why everyone is whining about this.
Jacob Christie said 6:24PM on 1-31-2010
Not being able to use Google search on an Apple product would sort of prove Jobs' point. Their policy is BS.
With regards to the Photoshop comment, the same thing was said about Avid. Apple has the ability to offer a Photoshop competitor and maybe more importantly has the ability to sell their ENTIRE professional productivity suite for a very low price for the same reason they can sell OS X substantially cheaper the Windows. Why? Because in order to purchase it, you need to purchase a Mac first.
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bayxsonic said 9:59PM on 1-31-2010
wait wait wait! You can't use Google Search on Apple products? Since when?
They're not planning on doing that AFAIK.
DJFriar said 6:34PM on 1-31-2010
In regards to Blu-ray, I don't understand what the hold up is. Its the de facto standard now for physical video media. I've only my BD player (a PS3) for one month now, and I have 26 Blu-ray titles already. Its here, and Apple needs to get on board the train. When it was still HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray, I understood them holding back, but that war is long over.
Seriously Apple, why the delay?
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Cletus said 7:12PM on 1-31-2010
Apple likes products to be stable and the blueray standard is still evolving and till it stabilize I expect apple to hold back. On the other Hand I can't wait either