Filed under: Hardware, Bad Apple, Blogs
An explanation for random MacBook shutdowns?
Blogger Martin Backschat has more or less translated a German article that takes a stab at trying to figure out what is going on with this random MacBook shutdown issue. One only needs to check out MacBook Random Shutdown.com or comb the archives of digg and Apple discussion forums to grasp how many are plagued by this dark game of workflow Russian roulette, but we have yet to hear even a peep from Apple as to what the problem is, and how they're going to fix it.Martin says the theory centers on a cable that runs between the heat sensor and the CPU's heat sink being too short. The heat sink expands when operating the MacBook, which causes it to contact the heat sensor's cable and melt its insulation - hence, a short circuit and a shutdown. Once the MacBook is no longer running, the heat sink cools down and contracts during the process, breaking the short circuit and allowing the machine to boot again (this expansion and contraction can happen pretty quickly, so it would make sense if your machine can boot almost immediately after shutdown).
It's a twisted game these components play with each other for sure, and we're all hoping for some kind of a statement or - ideally - a solution from Apple soon. The more widespread and publicized this issue becomes, the farther away these Macs will get from their 'it just works' reputation. Something tells us 'it just works - until it decides not to and randomly shut down, blowing away all your work' wouldn't roll off Justin Long's tongue nearly as well.
[via digg]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
alex said 9:14AM on 9-05-2006
don't people know that intel processors shut down when they get too hot? why are they getting too hot? at least the p4s did , i doubt they'd remove such a valueble feature. why would they be getting too hot is the real question? also if you reboot right away after one of those heat related shutdowns you're almost gaurunteed that its followed by another one immediate . i could be wrong. but it just seems like "random" shutdowns should be replaced with "heat related" and if some cable insulation melting is the case im pretty sure you could smell that. i am a long time pc user so im just offering a switchers point of view
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Boris Shubinsky said 9:30AM on 9-05-2006
Agreed. Besides, how does this explain a perfectly working Macbook to start shutting down constantly after 3-4 months of use? If the cable is expanding and contracting, especially quickly, wouldn't the problem be immediate, or within the first few weeks of use?
I've had my Macbook repaired once, the shutdown problem was fixed for two weeks, and now it's starting to do it again. I'm getting pretty pissed. This time, however, I can actually duplicate it pretty easily. I just can't afford to sent it to them again due to school.
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Mark said 9:33AM on 9-05-2006
alex,
did you even read the article?
it states that they think that they found the reason for the shut-downs. there's a cable that has it's heat-shrink melted off and when it heats up it comes in contact with another component and causes a short circuit.
So far, they have not determined that the processor is the issue.
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Ed said 9:35AM on 9-05-2006
I thought I saw people saying it was random, sometimes a few minutes after start up when it wouldn't be too hot...
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Jon said 9:44AM on 9-05-2006
"Agreed. Besides, how does this explain a perfectly working Macbook to start shutting down constantly after 3-4 months of use? If the cable is expanding and contracting, especially quickly, wouldn't the problem be immediate, or within the first few weeks of use?"
It would probably take a while to burn through the cable's outer plastic coating.
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alex said 9:47AM on 9-05-2006
did you read the part about smelling burning?
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Chris said 9:49AM on 9-05-2006
It may or may not be related, but I've experienced the random shutdown as well, and it was connected with a faulty battery which was reporting its charge incorrectly. It would charge until the indicator claimed 100% charge, then it would run down to _actual_ zero, causing the machine to shut down in a way that appeared random.
Might not be the issue, but it's a possibility.
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someone said 9:50AM on 9-05-2006
I've seen several machines go out to apple's repair depot for the issue and come back with the heatsink's replaced, which would intially seem to lend credence to this theory,
however, the fact that out of 4 that returned from depot one day, 2 came back in the next still doing it, takes a bit away.
in every case, though, replacing the mlb has done the trick, at least in my experience.
and as for the randomness, i've also found that the yes > /dev/null trick will make it happen almost every time, after anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes, so i'd be comfortable drawing the conclusion that its more likely related to processor load, not even heat.
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alex said 10:01AM on 9-05-2006
well in that case it might be the ram that could be bad, but maybe not since apple considers 2 gigs of whatever ram they're putting in these things to be worth 300 dollars.
i'd go with heat before ram then as im sure most people have upgraded theirs to 2 gigs by now.
i imagine the heatsinks are pretty tiny in these things as theres not alot of room for one, who knows they might be getting dislodged, or the thermal goo is of a lower grade or something.
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mo said 10:18AM on 9-05-2006
well i just recived my macbook back from apple, it would shutdown at random. apple put in a new logic board. it seems fine, in the few hours that i have had it back.
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mosey levy said 10:53AM on 9-05-2006
my macbook died within 2 weeks of owning it (the logic board had to be replaced)
a few weeks after getting it back, it started shutting off randomly.
i went to apple and they replaced the entire macbook for free.
: )
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san said 11:09AM on 9-05-2006
I've had my MacBook shutdown on its own, once I think. The other couple times I had to hold down the power button because it wouldn't come out of sleep -- just a black screen (not off black, but on black with the backlight).
Anyway, when it shutdown on its own it was in sleep mode. When I started it up it displayed a message that OS X had unexpectedly quit; I dismissed the message and it worked like normal. I'm wondering if this could be a problem with the system software and not the hardware. For example if the whole operating system crashes while the computer is asleep I would expect it would turn off as a safety measure, to keep things from overheating or the battery running all the way down -- since there is no operating system functioning to control things.
Anyway, it's only happened once, unless you count when it won't wake up from sleep, and I've had that happen with various Macs off and on for years.
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Austin McChord said 11:47AM on 9-05-2006
I think these issues are vastly over blown and apple customers in general like to complain. As with all products in this world there defect in small numbers. In my experince (8 macs over 15 years) apple has been nothing but curtious and helpful in repairing my computer and as long as the issue is hardware and within one year of purchasing (I am to cheap for apple care) the repair has been free. This sort of bickering over problems to an extent where it has its own domain and forums and demands of a recall and people getting new macbooks is simply overblown. If your computer has an issue call apple.. they will fix it for you.
Just my 2 cents
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Sebastian said 12:17PM on 9-05-2006
I too suffer from the random shutdown issue. But in my case, it only happens when I wake up the MacBook from sleep - or boot it. A heat issue makes absolutely no sense in this case.
Yesterday, it took almost 30 minutes until the MacBook stayed on. Before, it always shut off after some seconds (1-60). It's kind of annoying to see some people insisting it's as simple as a heat issue.
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Ben said 12:19PM on 9-05-2006
Austin, thanks for your 2 cents, but the issue is not being overblown. If you look at the Apple forums you can see that there are A LOT of people having this problem. Furthermore, getting Apple to 'fix' it often does not work - many continue to have the problem. Apple hasn't even commented on the problem, exacerbating the feelings of many.
This is a major issue for Apple, imagine how many of these people having the issue are switchers, and then imagine how many are going to switch back because their 'crash proof' computer is anything but.
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MattK said 12:36PM on 9-05-2006
I don't think this issue is being overblown. A few of my friends have Macbooks and all have the shutdown problem. Repairing it has not helped... they come back, work for a little while, then go bad again. This seems like a major manufacturing defect or design flaw, and I agree that Apple needs to get this solved real quick or risk facing damage to their reputation.
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John H. Farr said 12:37PM on 9-05-2006
My first MacBook ran fine for six weeks, mushy trackpad button aside, then it started quitting on me. It happened after hours of use, after booting up from cold, and sometimes half a dozen times in quick succession. Changing RAM made no difference. It got to where I had great trouble just getting it started again.
I'm now on MacBook #2, the first having been replaced NOT for shutdowns but for the crummy trackpad button. The new machine is running fine, but I DO SMELL SOMETHING "BURNING" when the fans come on, a scent of melting insulation maybe, or just an odor from a new machine that hasn't seen much use yet.
This isn't a joke and it is affecting at least some users. I have the feeling this MacBook is living on borrowed time, but we shall see. Apple needs to come clean on this, and soon.
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mapin said 12:44PM on 9-05-2006
i'm glad to see tuaw reporting on one of dozens apple laptop flaws ! 'bout time
i'll be holding out until these things get solved before buying a new mac laptop, that's for sure.
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mapin said 2:40PM on 9-05-2006
#13 you clearly have not bought an intel laptop from apple. yes previous stuff has been good quality, but apple's reputation has been damaged in the eyes of many apple lovers (including myself). At a time when they're getting record numbers of switchers, many of them are switching back (many friends of mine) after the problems they've had with 2, 3, even 4 macbook and macbook pro replacements. You used to call apple and they'd fix it, now you call apple and they don't know even how to fix it and just send you another one w/ the same problems. Good luck with that, i'll stick to my trusty old iBook G4 until they get their act together.
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Rod said 4:37PM on 9-05-2006
I got my first macbook the week they came out, and had serious shutdown problems from overheating. I took it back, waited a couple weeks, and bought another.
It was fine for two months, and then started doing the random shutdowns at the beginning of August. After waiting almost a month for the backordered logic board to get back in stock, I finally had it swapped out at a local authorized service provider this past friday.
It's been fine all weekend, so far so good. The idle cpu temperature has dropped from 60C (before repair) to about 30C (after), and under load from 78C to 40C. That's a MAJOR difference, 30-40 _CELSIUS_. The technician said the thermal compound on the cpu was not thick enough, and dry and cracked, so it was effectively doing nothing, hence the overheating and shutdowns.
This, of course, was just my experience. YMMV.
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