Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Macbook Pro
Yes, Virginia, you do have to log out to switch graphics cards on the MBP
Having options is good; saving energy is good; improving battery life on your laptop is very good. Having to log out and back in to switch between the two video cards on the MacBook Pro? Um... not all that good. Kinda annoying, to tell you the truth.
Engadget posted a video last night of the swap process (click one button in System Preferences, log out, log back in -- seems ripe for automation) and while it's not particularly onerous, it does seem very weird considering that there aren't any other Energy Saver changes that require a logout. Also worthy of note: the default setting on the new machines is for "Better Performance," using the integrated card.
Why force a logout? Perhaps there are issues with having to redraw windows when flopping from card to card, or particular apps that go 'kaboom!' when told to move onto the other hardware? I can certainly imagine that 3D games or Core Animation-dependent apps might throw a minor freakout if the world shifted under them suddenly, but it still seems like a lot of people are going to settle on one graphics card based on their usage profile (desk-bound gamer vs. mobile maven) and stick with it.
There's also the possibility that the real advantage of this dual-GPU config won't be realized until the OS catches up with the gear. Adding a 2nd GPU is a fairly radical proposition if all you're gaining is the option of better battery life (although, since the 9400M hardware is part of the system chipset, it comes along 'for free'), but when Mac OS X 10.6 comes along it should include the capability to offload general-purpose computing tasks to the GPU, which could provide exponential performance increases for certain apps. Having an extra GPU sitting around waiting to be harnessed starts to seem like a really good idea when considered in that context.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
fail said 11:13AM on 10-15-2008
I don't think its weird at all, the WindowServer process needs to be relaunched to associate it with the other graphics card. I find it unlikely that Apple would re-architect the WindowServer before the next major OS revision.
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Devon said 11:44AM on 10-15-2008
Exactly. The whole window drawing pipeline goes through OpenGL so the easiest way to switch to a different GPU is by restarting the process that is running on the current GPU. You can only do this by logging out with the current way OS X does it's drawing.
Joseph said 2:46PM on 10-15-2008
Being a print/web designer that does photo/video for extra cash and games occasionally, I would probably switch to discrete when I needed it and not use discrete as default. Most of my apps don't need/use a discrete graphics card.
Dweeby said 11:16AM on 10-15-2008
Some Sony Vaio models have had the option to switch between integrated and discrete graphics by way of a physical "toggle" switch on-the-fly.
I'm not understanding Apple's marketing and design decisions on these Macbook/Pro revisions. Perhaps in due time.
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Josh said 11:21AM on 10-15-2008
Because the way windows deals with graphics cards is different than the way the mac os does.
With its roots in XWindow, the connections are made to the gfx card before anything is displayed by the OS. Windows can (from XP forward) unload video drivers (dropping down to a native vga driver), and reload new ones on the fly. Since driver updates from video cards were getting so frequent, i think they did this to make the process easier.
I fail to see the real complaint though. It's not like it takes much time at all to do the switch...
Michael Rose said 11:25AM on 10-15-2008
It can take a long time if you've got plenty of apps open and work in progress. "Saving state" in applications like Mail or Entourage, where open windows = things to pay attention to, is challenging.
SpinThis! said 1:39PM on 10-15-2008
I don't see why this is such a pain in the ass. Apple isn't billing this as on-the-fly switching... they're just giving you the choice between performance and battery life.
* If you want better battery life, you'll probably quit open applications anyway since page hits to the HD will kill your battery life just as quickly as a switch in graphics card performance (in say your typical applications).
* Or if you need the most processing power available, you'll probably quit extra open applications anyway so logging out takes care of quitting open applications anyway.
Either way, ~1 hour isn't going to kill you unless you're on the road. Then you'll gladly make the switch to get the extra battery time. It might even turn out that both cards are easily up to most people's tasks and they'll choose the lower-end card for everything.
Ben Hodgson said 11:34AM on 10-15-2008
Does anyone know if/how this works on Windows under boot camp?
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Zeromaru said 11:47AM on 10-15-2008
Windows in Boot Camp will probably pick this up as the "Hybrid SLI" tech and swap on the fly as Dweeby said.
As for the time required to log out/in again, considering one would be using the discrete card for heavier applications - gaming, 2D/3D graphics, video editing, etc - it's unlikely to be running multiple programs at once, save small-footprint programs like iChat or Mail, which take mere seconds to start up.
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Badmoon said 11:53AM on 10-15-2008
Ohh jeee the same flame bait as on Engadget .... :(
1 - even on window you do have to quit and relaunch Apps for them to be redrawn in the alt GPU framebuffer (no log out tho, but isn't "Quit and save opened Docs" the longest part of the process?)
2 - nVidia Itself recognized that Hybrid SLI (GeForce Boost part) will not live and will be dropped in faver of next gen GPU that should then be able to really run in "economy mode" (for now it's on or off)
3 - nVidia Itself recognized that Hybrid SLI (GeForce Power part) is less efficient (slower on the total processing time) when the Chipset's GPU and dedicated GPU are running at the same time, than each one can run individually... (when It's not buggy)
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Nate said 11:54AM on 10-15-2008
I thought it was on the fly but having to log out and in makes sense. Most software can't handle the graphics card being switched on the fly.
Apple's site says this about switching between the two:
"But when you need turbocharged performance for the most graphically intensive tasks, the discrete NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT processor delivers. And thanks to a new graphics architecture, it’s easy to switch between these two processors."
I don't know about everyone else but to me this is not easy. Closing everything I have open, re-login, then open everything back up to where it was before can be a real pain.
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Joseph said 2:43PM on 10-15-2008
How is that not easy?
Open files that need to be saved?
⇧ + ⌘ + Q
No files need saving?
⇧ + ⌘ + ⌥ + Q
or If you want to be advanced and save yourself time write a few variations in apple script to toggle and log out.
EMoShunz said 11:56AM on 10-15-2008
does anyone know if with 10.6 both cards could be utilized at the same time? either an actual sli setup, or one running graphics and the other using opencl to, say, run live sound of multiple midi and sound processing programs at a gig for guitar, keys, bass and drums, with no latency?
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Johnny said 12:48PM on 10-15-2008
I assumed as soon as I heard about the dual GPUs that one of them was for OpenCL in 10.6. What would this do to the battery though? Only 3 hours now?
Really, though, what other reason would there be for two independent GPUs? I highly doubt the reason is for the user to make a choice between 4-5 hours of battery life.
David said 12:00PM on 10-15-2008
All this bitching is getting over the top. It does not matter what Apple does there will be a certain percentage bitching about it.
If it bothers you don't buy the damn thing, you can't go to a single forum or blog without the whiners dragging every topic or post down. I'm not sure the switching campaign was such a good idea after all. It seems that all the switchers are complainers and that Microsoft was glad to see you go!
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ghostshadow said 12:19PM on 10-15-2008
Oh snap! I kind of agree.
Then again, without people complaining, Apple wouldn't make the requested changes that they make. I, like you, wish it wasn't everywhere I go, but what can you do? Just avoid the discussion as much as possible until everyone settles down.
I am pretty certain Apple will release an update that will allow you to switch modes on the fly without having to log out.
pjones said 12:30PM on 10-15-2008
Let's all remember that this is an excellent time to nab a refurb'd previous gen MBP for a GREAT price. Let's be honest, every 1st gen product has its share of unforeseen glitches... but the previous generation was engineered to perfection. Sure it doesn't look as snazzy and doesn't have quite as good spec's.... or that sweet new trackpad... hrm... but it's a great machine that will last and last. speaking from experience, my main Mac is a 2nd-to-last-gen iBook G4 12". And boy, do I want a new "aluminum unibody" macbook BADLY. :-)
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ogvor said 12:39PM on 10-15-2008
To be honest, while this kind sucks, I'm much happier with having the option at all. What matters to me is how it functions in Windows XP/Vista. I have been happily using my Santa Rose MacBook Pro as a PC gaming machine under boot camp and if I just used the integrated graphics chip in OSX and the dedicated in windows for games, that would be great.
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Petar Smilajkov said 12:40PM on 10-15-2008
Oh, knock it off you lazy bums. Too hard to close your precious apps for a 10 second switch which gives you 1 hour more of battery life. SHUT UP!
http://iBetaTest.com :)
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Jake said 12:41PM on 10-15-2008
Seriously? THIS is all you can find to complain about? It's not like we're changing the color of a file icon here, switching between graphics cards is not at all a small task.
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