C.K.: Which Powerbook do you have, are you working from an Erase and Install and what types of customization have you added with third party apps?

I've never experienced any of the problems you're experiencing on a regular basis (except Safari's memory leak, which I suspect is closely related to the problem you have of having to restart it to update feeds).

Also, I've said this here many, many times, but you need to get your facts straight about Dashboard's memory usage, and OS X's memory management as a whole. I mean, you shout in italics that you're a guru, so please, please, inform yourself on this and stop.

Reply

With respect to Dashboard resource usage, I did find one widget that ate considerable CPU power even when Dashboard was not active. I know this from looking at Activity Monitor, and from the fact that as soon as I removed that one widget, my CPU use dropped and the fan in my Powerbook turned off. Unfortunately, I really can't remember which widget it was. I've installed (and uninstalled) a ton of widgets just to check them out, and I don't remember which one it was that caused the problem. Anyway, you might want to experiment by opening Activity Monitor and then disabling just one widget at a time, to see if you can identify one or a few particularly badly behaved widgets.

Reply

And why does the iPhoto "open in external editor" feature no longer work?

Reply

"And why does the iPhoto "open in external editor" feature no longer work?"

Because you have a bad installation of Tiger along with applications that no longer have support files in the right place or acknowledged by your OS. I'm going to guess that you either did an Upgrade or an Archive Install. You *might* be able to fix the problem by reinstalling the app that you use as your external editor, but you're better off just backing up your personal documents and doing an Erase and Install.

Reply

ichat file transfer works fine for me in Tiger.
yes, iPhoto sucks, but try this:
1. back up your iPhoto Library file
2. rebuild your iPhoto Library by booting iPhoto with teh option+apple keys down
3. in iPhoto Prefs, get rid of any outline or dropshadow on the pics, and make the background total white or total black
4. download and run iPhoto Diet

Reply

i dunno. i have two installations of Tiger on two seperate PowerBooks, and neither of them have the problems you're discussing. iChat file transfer still works through the Buddy menu, iPhoto is doing well. Spotlight hasn't crashed the finder so far. The only major complaint I see is with Dashboard being, like you said, a resource hog. That and Spotlight could be a little faster. Well, a lot faster.

considering how past iterations of OS X have been, I think we'll be seeing bugfixes through the end, with the major ones being addressed in the next couple updates. Apple was quick to bring out 10.4.1, and i imagine we'll see 10.4.2 before too long.

something to keep in mind about the iTunes 4.9 announcement is that Stevie went against Apple standard operating procedure by talking about a future product. i don't imagine that iTunes 4.9 is the only thing being worked on over there, it just happens to be getting a lot of attention because of the rarity that an announcement like this comes out.

Reply

Amen brother! Testify!

I'm preparing a laundry list of OS bugs/annoyances/shames for my own blog as we speak...

The title: Tiger- Eliza Doolittle? Pretty woman? No, just a ho in pretty makeup.

You get the idea.

And BTW folks, you should NOT have to reconfigure or reinstall applications to get them working again. This is why we use a Mac, because we like to get work done, NOT because we like monkeying around in the guts...

Reply

I don't have any of the problems your listing. I've got Tiger installed on an 1GHz iBook with 512 Mb of RAM and on a 867MHz TiBook with 1Gb of RAM and they're running flawless. Both were upgrade installs; not archive or clean.

I don't think Apple is going to stop all product announcements so they can fix your problem. Everyone I know running Tiger is running it flawlessly. Either you have a bad install or are running or have run haxies and something isn't right. But don't blame Apple for smoke screening Windows style because there is a possibility that it's something you may have done.

Try a clean install.

Reply

Apple does not draw attention to its issues because that is not good business practice. If you were trying to make money, would you point out the things that don't work or the things that do? You sell the sizzle, not the steak.

iChat AV works great for me. I have transferred multiple files to friends via iChat. Some of the recipients were using AOL IM.

If you did an Archive and Install to install Tiger, I suggest you pull your preferences and add back only the ones that you really need (like Mail, the Dock, the sidebar, and a few programs). Preferences tends to bloat after a while of installing/uninstalling stuff.

Since Apple is well-known for its secrecy, it's a futile effort to rant that Apple isn't doing anything when you really have no idea if they are. I doubt their OS engineers are allowed to talk about what they are trying to fix to the public. Again, bad business juju if they do.

Reply

Shane: try reparing permissions first, then reinstall Illustrator. I run the Illustrator CS myself and have had no problems after QT 7.01 or any other updates.

Guillermo writes: "Why does Finder freeze up forever if I mistakenly unplug the network cable before ejecting my connected shares?"

There is a preset timeout for network connections that causes Finder to try to continue to connect to network volumes when the signal is lost. I'd recommend just making a habit of ejecting volumes the way you're supposed to, but failing that, just make a new Network Location in your preferences with all network ports turned off. When you click Apply, Finder should immediately cease looking for the network.

Reply

C.K., everything you are saying is pointing to bad installs. Archive and Install is a horrible choice and won't work for the majority of people migrating from Panther. Yes, shame on Apple for having two upgrade paths that don't take in consideration that you might actually have applications installed on your computer, but that's not going to change. It's unfortunate but true, we as users just have to take more responsibility for our migration this time around. That means Erase and Install, and NO copying of old User folders into the new system. Documents, Photos, Music, fine. If you put a Panther user Library folder onto a Tiger system, you're screwed.

We aren't ignorant of the problems, we're just not oblivious to the solution. One day with your user's Macs and I could have them fixed and running just like my system.

Dashboard: I certainly hope this is the last time I have to say this. STOP looking at Activity Monitor for ANY indication of what OS X is actually doing with your Dashboard Widgets. The "Active Memory" is fully available to all other parts of your system unless the Dashboard is active, or if you have a widget set to always be on top. Dashboard widgets are just javascript and html, so if you have a sloppily written third-party widget that forcibly updates itself every 2 seconds in the background, that's another story, but Apple widgets, and properly coded third party widgets are completely inactive (both CPU and Memory) when they are in the background.

If you're experiencing Dashboard or msd (Spotlight) CPU ramps of 90-100%, your installation of Tiger is flawed. Write an article and rant about how poorly of a state Apple leaves your system in on Upgrades and Archive & Installs, but when you have problems from _either_ of those upgrade paths, and believe me, you do: System Updates from Apple will never fix them. Not that they wouldn't want to, but it's not parts of the system that are breaking things, it's straggling remnants and/or missing pieces that a Software Update simply cannot fix for you.

Short answer! If you have crashes, odd behavior, or regular problems with Tiger, you have an bad installation. And the problems caused by that bad installation won't magically go away by going to 10.4.x, but only by going back to a GOOD install of 10.4.0.

Reply

We have a couple of older Power Macs, G5 350. I installed Tiger on mine and had no problems, The other had all sorts of the problems you mentioned. My roommate swore at Tiger day and night, Tiger sucks blah blah blah. I kept saying earase and install. Finally she did an erase and install after copying her drive via firewire. Nice she has no problems and loves Tiger.

Reply

djones is 100% correct! I am so completely tired of these blog postings about how everything is screwed up on Tiger, or because of Quicktime 7.0.1.

I have none of these issues. Never have had any of these issues. But then again I am not _stupid_ enough to do an upgrade or an archive and install on a major upgrade of the OS.

Just for the record, that is on 2 Powerbooks, 4 Mac Mini's and 3 Xserves.

Also I am curious how many people reporting these types of issues have various hacks installed on there machines.

Backup your information. Do a fresh install of Tiger and update it accordingly. Do NOT install any of the various menu, Safari or other hacks and kernel modifications. Unless you are 100% certain they are fully compatible with 10.4.1.

Apple's biggest mistake was allowing for these upgrades and archive installs. Yes it is time consuming to back up things and reinstall. But it is all but guaranteed that you will have a fully working system when you do.

Can we now get an interesting post about something, uhm, interesting?

Reply

djones is 100% correct! I am so completely tired of these blog postings about how everything is screwed up on Tiger, or because of Quicktime 7.0.1.

I have none of these issues. Never have had any of these issues. But then again I am not _stupid_ enough to do an upgrade or an archive and install on a major upgrade of the OS.

Just for the record, that is on 2 Powerbooks, 4 Mac Mini's and 3 Xserves.

Also I am curious how many people reporting these types of issues have various hacks installed on there machines.

Backup your information. Do a fresh install of Tiger and update it accordingly. Do NOT install any of the various menu, Safari or other hacks and kernel modifications. Unless you are 100% certain they are fully compatible with 10.4.1.

Apple's biggest mistake was allowing for these upgrades and archive installs. Yes it is time consuming to back up things and reinstall. But it is all but guaranteed that you will have a fully working system when you do.

Can we now get an interesting post about something, uhm, interesting?

Reply

Now I am really glad I haven't upgraded yet! Guess I will wait until the next patch release comes out and then upgrade all the machines. Right now everything is running perfectly now.

Reply

CK: what Extensor just said.

My process for a successful Erase and Install:

1) Make a list of the Applications that the user actually uses. Download installers for each, or have the original application discs handy. Make note of any needed license codes / serials to make the reinstallation painfree.

2) Copy the the User folder onto an external drive in its entirety. Copy the installers from step 1 onto the external drive as well.

3) Perform an Erase and Install.

4) Run Software Update, restart

5) Repair permissions

6) Reinstall applications from step 1. Limit to productivity apps. Try to leave off extraneous applications developed by smaller companies or individuals. I.e. try to stick with Adobe, Apple, Macromedia, etc. for a few days, or at least a few hours. Repair permissions after *each* application install.

7) Run Software Update again to update any installed apps. Run as many times as necessary to update all. Restart, repair permissions.

8) Create new users for people that will be using this computer

9) From the external drive, copy the user's Documents, Music, and Photos, if needed. Take the opportunity to only copy of things that are actually needed, and reclaim some wasted disk space and bad organization left over from previous use.

10) Copy absolutely nothing from the Library folder. It will be a minor inconvenience to have to set application preferences all over again once than to deal with the problems of older and incompatible preference files from the old OS.

That's pretty much it. Basically, it's just a wipe of the drive, fresh Tiger install, update, followed by careful application installation, and limited User file reinstatement.

Like you, I tried multiple very careful and thorough Archive and Installs, and encountered numerous and inexplicable bugs. Inability to open files by dropping them on dock application icons, Spotlight CPU reaching 100%, downloaded files "stacking" on the same spot on the desktop. Finder dropping my icons on locations other than where I let go of the mouse. Dock crashes and reappearing, sans the applications I had told to stay there. Random broken aspects of FCP 4.5, DVDSP 3, complete failure of Compressor or any of the QMaster services, etc. The list was too much to enumerate.

Erase and Install did the trick, on my 2x2.0 G5, a 500MHz G3 iMac, and my buddy's 1.5GHz 15" PowerBook. None of the computers exhibited the same problems or the same conditions. All three computers exhibit none of the problems after a tedious and careful Erase and Install.

Applications not being installed within Tiger's environment, and third party Preference Panes seemed to be the culprit in all cases, but who knows what else was contributing? Just bite the bullet and wipe them. And don't let your users install any system modifying PrefPanes or application plug-ins unless they have been tested on an isolated Tiger machine. Speaking of, if time is critical to your users, give them a replacement machine and do each machine one at a time, and leave it bare Tiger for a full day with no applications or users other than yourself, to make sure that there are not any unforseen hardware incompatibilities with Tiger itself. Then proceed from step 6 only after you've verified that the machine and Tiger are both in good shape.

Reply

Let me elaborate on my earlier post, as this seems to be going nowhere...

Several have commented on re-installs. Well, that's great. Of course, a clean system install should theoretically fix everything-- at least, whatever isn't broken in the OS to begin with.

But here's the problem. I've installed many OS'es as upgrades, and not had nearly as many problems as I'm hearing with Tiger. We're talking Linux, Windows, and Mac.

Again, the point of having a Mac is that it should "just work."

One of my students said he "hates" macs because you can't build your own. I said, that's great, but unless you work somewhere that pays you to build machines, who cares? Personally, I have work to do. Manufacturing a PC is a largely automated process, thus the pay ain't so great. I'd rather get paid to use my brain, not my hands (so to speak).

Point is, having to wipe an HD and re-install, then migrate all your old stuff back to the "new" machine is a huge investment in time. For people with multiple responsibilities (projects, kids, jobs, etc.) it seems patently un-Mac-like to have to endure such an unneccessary situation.

Does that make sense? If your time is valuable enough, you should NOT have to jump through all these hoops just for a simple OS upgrade...

But then again, as the song goes, every OS sucks. As much as I love Apple, and what they make, they are far from perfect. While you can't completely eliminate entropy, when we're talking binary manipulations here you should at least be able to mitigate it-- *especially* when you're touting something supposedly "better" than the alternatives.

Truth is, it is better. But by how much?

I love the fact that some people are having no problems whatsoever. Hooray! That doesn't really help the rest of us, does it?

What is at issue here are potentially critical flaws in an OS that *appears* to have been rushed out the door to fulfill a marketing destiny. That's not how it should be done, but you're right, there's no convincing Apple that is correct. Goal: beat MS to the punch via Spotlight. Goal accomplished-- sort of.

But, if your OS upgrade is buggy enough to agitate people, all the iPods and good press and high stock swelling will do you no good. Word of mouth on the internet and elsewhere will see the gains erode faster than stability in WinME.

The bottom line is that there seems to be an inordinate amount of flaws in the OS that CK is having to deal with. While this might mean job security, it takes away from the productivity of the people using those machines. That means a purchaser or business owner would have to question the upgrade, despite whatever neat-o bullet points grace the back of the box.

CK, would you say this OS upgrade has been MORE problematic than past ones? I assume you've been using Macs for quite a while. Thinking back from OS 6 to 7 (big jump), or 7 to 8 (jump), or even 8 to 9 (hop and skip), heck 9 to 10.0 (quantum leap)-- are you seeing more problems than any of those transitions?

THAT is the point.

Reply